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Towers Active or not

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Tailin Sero's picture
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What Towers are currently active?

Sajuuk-Khar's picture
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The only know I know of for sure is the Ur-Tower, aka Adamantine. Green-Sap might be active also, maybe.

Od
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I'm certain Ur Tower is still active, given Akatosh personally stood in the need for the Convention, at White-Gold. The avatars don't intervene, unless the laws of Convention are broken and need mending.

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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Snow Tower is still active, since the Dragonborn prophecy was talking about Nords in general, not the actual Tower. Especially since it's not like Skyrim's never had a civil war before or been without a king. Unless the "cave" was destroyed, which as far as we know isn't.

Green-Sap is more interesting, since it has to do with Anumaril and the Perchance Acorn (which turned into the Definite Acorn after he showed it a piece from the Staff of Towers). So while it no longer walks and does have an ending now, its ending is unknown.

Od
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And it can be evinced Snow Tower's alive and well. Kyne spoke in true needs through the Greybeards, and the Ysmir answered her. I'm of the understanding Hrothgar's particularly attuned to the Spirit of Nirn. What Shor son of Shor calls a cave was the Heart of the World. The Dragonblood is rite of passage into the council of the Oversoul and Dragonborn of all generations.

(Maybe Herma wanted that council, or perhaps he's the demon keeping it a secret from other mortals. I'll stop there.) I don't know anything about Falinesti, except what Xarnac the Conqueror said.

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Could you provide a source for that, Xarnac? I'd like to read more about it.

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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Which part? The Green-Sap bit?

 

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Ah yes, that one. Thank you!

Fiore1300's picture
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Do most people consider Ceporah one of the Towers? I myself generally do, and if its true then you can count Ceporah as still active. In fact, the only Towers you can really point to as being inactive would be Red Tower and Crystal Tower. And maybe Walk-Brass, but that's really timey-wimey.

Edit: And probably Orichalc also.

Sajuuk-Khar's picture
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White-Gold is inactive with the destruction of the Amulet of Kings,  though Akatosh replaced the(separate) force of the Dragonfires, White-Gold itself still lacks a stone to power it.

Also, we have no knowledge of if Green-Sap started moving again after the Oblivion crisis, so its likely it might be inactive also, or at least messed up in some manner.

And the book of the dragonborn lists Walks-Brass, Red-tower, White-Gold, and snow-throat as being kaput as events that will happen before Alduin's return.

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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Dragonborn was referring to the people of Skyrim (Nords) not the actual tower.

Snow Throat is still active. Snow Throat is synonymous with the Throat of the World, Throat of the World is synonymous with Skyrim and by extension its people. If having no king and being in a civil war (sundered, kingless, bleeding) was the event that deactivates Snow Throat's stone (a cave) then that would have happened in the early 1st Era with King Borgas. If it's "just the prophecy" that deactivates them, then all of them should be deactivated since successive deactivations would seemingly have a domino effect, otherwise why would it be the prophecy's doing?

Lady N's picture
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Fiore1300 wrote:

Do most people consider Ceporah one of the Towers? I myself generally do, and if its true then you can count Ceporah as still active. 

Why would you consider it a Tower? Outside of it being named "Ceporah Tower" 

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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8 Towers representing the 8 divines. The Missing God gets the elusive "Missing" Tower, which is the wheel itself, turned sideways.

Since we already have the 8 and 1 Towers (Ada-Mantia, Crystal-Like-Law, Green-Sap, Orichalc, Red Tower, Snow-Throat, Walk-Brass, White-Gold, and the Aurbis' structure itself as the ninth) I'm not sure there's any more of them. Or at least none that made it to full Tower status.  

Though I did once theorize that the Pillar of Thras was a Daedric pseudo-Tower, like an early Anchor or Oblivion Gate prototype.

Od
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The Tsaisci Dragon guard brought this prophecy to Tamriel, so it was looking forward to the end of the Second or the Third Empire. If the prophecy was to warn Borgas, not only were they were 2500 years too late, but the signs were unfulfilled.

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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I meant the actual physical/metaphysical thing that would hypothetically deactivate the tower. If it's Skyrim simply not having a king/being in civil war, regardless of any prophecy, that's already happened. 

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Lady N wrote:

Why would you consider it a Tower? Outside of it being named "Ceporah Tower" 

Well I think it shares some characteristics with the others. For what little we know about it, we know it predates the arrival of the Altmer (or does it mean Aldmer?) arrival on the island, suggesting an Aldmeri (or even earlier) construction. Whatever the case may be, it either predates Aldmer (Ada-Mantia, Snow-Throat, Red Tower) or was constructed by them (White-Gold, Crystal-Like-Law, Orichalc).

We also know that the Psijics use it in rituals, and I feel it some how legitimizes the flight of the entire island from the Thalmor.

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Xarnac The Conqueror wrote:
Dragonborn was referring to the people of Skyrim (Nords) not the actual tower.

I would have to disagree, all other parts of the prophecy were talking about the actual tower,  to say the final one is really talking about the Nords is a rather baseless contrivance.

As for why it went offline now instead of during previous civil wars, who knows, it's just part of the plot. Maybe it DID go offline during past civil wars, but it didn't matter then because the other towers were still functioning, but now, snow-throat going offline actually mattered because of the weakening of the barrier the fall of the other towers caused.

Xarnac The Conqueror wrote:
8 Towers representing the 8 divines. The Missing God gets the elusive "Missing" Tower, which is the wheel itself, turned sideways.

If the towers represented the divines, then Red-Mountain would belong to Lorkhan, which would leave one of the other gods without a tower.

Also, why would the towers represent the 8 divines when the elves who built them never believed in half of them?

Arkay, Dibella, Julianos, and Kynareth, are absent in the pantheons of the elves, except the Bosmer who do worship Arkay.

Not to mention many of their pantheons have more then 8 "gods"

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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They represent the 8 Divines. 8 and 1 Towers, 8 and 1 divines. Each Divine isn't necessarily connected to any specific one, but the numbers are there and that's a representation not a coincidence.

Snow Throat is not deactivated, as the prophecy was taking about Skyrim in general, since Snow-Throat is synonymous with Skyrim and by extension the Nords. The prophecy is chronological, so that would mean if it did refer to the physical Tower, that we would be given an explanation why it deactivated, but we haven't. If it was deactivated before the others, then why was it put last? You could also argue that "sundered, kingless, bleeding" doesn't even mean deactivated, but on the verge, etc. by Alduin's return.

The line in question is the odd man out. Sundered means split, kingless, without king and bleeding, at war (with each other). It's not even talking about the actual Tower. Every other line refers to the actual events that led to the Towers being deactivated and their effects, but the Nordic line doesn't.

Sajuuk-Khar's picture
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Xarnac The Conqueror wrote:
They represent the 8 Divines. 8 and 1 Towers, 8 and 1 divines.

Snow Throat is not deactivated, as the prophecy was taking about Skyrim in general, since Snow-Throat is synonymous with Skyrim and by extension the Nords.

There are 8 towers, and nine divines.

That's terrible logic,  and can be used on both Morrowind and Oblivion to say "its not referring to the tower itself! but rather the land because the tower is the most prominent feature in the land!."

And no, that line isn't the odd man out, its perfectly in-line with both the lines for Morrowind and Oblivion.

  • When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles
  • When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

Both lines refer not only to the towers fall, but something happening to people in the provence, and treats them as events happening at the same time.

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Xarnac The Conqueror wrote:

They represent the 8 Divines. 8 and 1 Towers, 8 and 1 divines. Each Divine isn't necessarily connected to any specific one, but the numbers are there and that's a representation not a coincidence.

While I can't comment on whether it was intended as a coincidence or not, ESO does introduce another tower, which throws off the numbers. 

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Sajuuk-Khar wrote:

snip

8 towers and 1 tower, the Wheel is the 9th Tower.

Nope, that's sound logic. Snow-Throat is synonymous with Skyrim, unlike the rest of the Towers and their provinces. All lines except the Nordic list the cause of the deactivation and its effect. So yeah, the odd man out.

Lady N wrote:

 

While I can't comment on whether it was intended as a coincidence or not, ESO does introduce another tower, which throws off the numbers. 

But where does that say it's an actual Tower Tower? It says they attempted to build one, not if they succeeded in it actually being a Tower on the level of the others. And while I have not played ESO out of Beta, I can only read about summaries of it, and from what I've read Doomcrag isn't an actual Tower, it was just the home to the Light of Life since the Ayleids didn't succeed.

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Quote:
But where does that say it's an actual Tower Tower? It says they attempted to build one, not if they succeeded in it actually being a Tower on the level of the others.

It succeeded for a while according to gameplay dialog (they used it to metaphysically terraform the area for habitability), then spectacularly failed (vampiric mind-control).  That alone gives us more proof of the actual function of it as a tower than we have for most of the others. 

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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So then it was 8 and 1 towers/Divine connection until ESO stuck its nose in. Still not sure Doomcrag is an actual Tower though. What's its stone? Do they say?

But as for the actual connection, come on. It's obvious, whether it doesn't hold true anymore or not that since Morrowind there were 8 and 1 Towers and 8 and 1 Divines. Even if you don't want to add the "and 1" and just want to go with 8 (Eight spokes, eight whatever), there's still too many instances of the number in lore for there not to be a theme. It's like saying it's just a coincidence the number 7 appears in the Abrahamic religions so many times.

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So from what I just read, it was a fragment of the Staff of Towers (the Light of Life) that actually transformed/terraformed the land. Itself a corrupted semblance of the Towers in their Dance. So does that make it an actual Tower or not? It seems more like a wannabe that was corrupted from the start. I mean, when Anumaril showed a real Stone (the Perchance Acorn) a piece from his staff it had an aneurysm.

Edit: On further reading, I've come to the conclusion that Anumaril and company were at first out to corrupt pre existing towers before attempting to actually make their own (Snow-Throat and Green-Sap). When they finally do attempt to create their own (Doomcrag) it fails. So I wouldn't count Doomcrag as a Tower, but a pseudo-Tower, from a pseudo-Stone that failed. Funny that the pseudo-stone itself didn't fail. They would have been better off not making the Tower.

Od
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Every Tower should have it's Guardians as well, better outlined in Nalion's Guardian Theory; a Warrior, Thief, Mage; Gormlaith, Hakon, Feldir; the Anticipations and ALMSIVI... Ours is the duty to keep the compromise from being filled with black sea - Vivec. The game play sense of the classes doesn't seem to matter, just the presence of a tribunal. The "Dragonborn Ruler", Kagrenac, Dagoth Ur, Paarthurnax, and Castellan of Balfeira have all acted as Metaphysic of an Ur Tower, with the Dragonborn once occupying center of the Wheel from White-Gold. This fourth member typically holds the Heart. It might be of note Numidium was the only Tower in the prophecy to succeed.

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It took sleep to realize this, but:

Doomcrag isn't a Tower, it was one of 8 newly proposed "Anti-Towers" to rival the old 8 towers and it failed. To further the 8 connection, Anumaril broke the Staff into 8 pieces to make 8 new Anti-Towers. And the "8s" keep coming... Doomcrag is "collated" in 880 minutes/eons. When Filestis dies, he dances 8 more choruses. Don't you 8 it when that happens?

Zhen Xiang's picture
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Theres so much lore here I might faint, anyone know a book on the site that references all these towers?

EDIT: Thanks Prowler

Proweler's picture
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It's all from the Nu-Mantia Intercept.

Fiore1300's picture
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So...no other thoughts on Ceporah Tower?

Maryna's picture
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Maybe Ceporah is an anti-tower like Doomcrag? I don't know, just a thought.

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MK says no to Ceporah Tower being a mythic Tower.

Since there's so little information, a counterargument would require someone making something up.