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Theories on where the Dwemer went

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Nerevkiin's picture
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Joined: 04/02/2014

Hi guys

I started this forum so people could share their thoughts on the Dwemer's disappearance 

My theories

1. The Dwemer became one with the Numidium by turning themselves into the armor plates on the Numidium

2. They are still around but are not physically on Tamerial like how the Ideal Masters are in the Soul Cairn 

3. They created and transported themselves into their own plane of existence or plane of Oblivion

4.  Lorkan destroyed the race for their greed and ignorance.

Those are my theories I wish to hear yours

Bye

Proweler's picture
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Joined: 06/14/2010

To answer what happened with the Dwemer you need a why, not just a what.

The usual questions are:

  • Why were the Dwemer building the Numidium?
  • What does it mean to reverse "the process of the sacred willing itself into the profane".
  • Why does the Numidium bring back the non-linearity of the Dawn Era?

 

Zhen Xiang's picture
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Joined: 11/03/2014

I think they were destroyed by the daedric power of Lorkhan's heart, the Dwemer descended from the Old Ehlnofey which descended from the blood of Anu and those two energies don't mix, we see that living Dwemer in Morrowind who was far away enough to survive so I think when Kagrenac attempted to tap into the heart he unleashed some sort of explosion of daedric energy wiping out all the dwemer in range, why just the dweller i don't know but thats what i think maybe it could be because it was them that tapped the heart and the explosion resonated to their blood i don't know but i think they were destroyed

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Joined: 02/26/2015

I believe that when they tried to access the power of Lorkhan's heart they were transported to somewhere where that is I have no idea. But maybe they where simply obliterated by the sheer power of the heart. Maybe we will never know.

Zhen Xiang's picture
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Joined: 11/03/2014

A bit of mystery is what keeps these games fun and it is well and nice to see the different theories fans come up with

Proweler's picture
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Except they're not theories, they're not even a hypothesis. They're random guesses with no foundation.

For lack of a better way of putting it, you're all ignoring the giant stompy robot in the room.

Zhen Xiang's picture
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Didn't Numidium get destroyed?

Dvorak-Vas's picture
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Ezreal wrote:

Didn't Numidium get destroyed?

The physical Numidium was destroyed. The metaphysical Numidium is outside of linear time, and everywhere at once. It's also very complicated.

Proweler's picture
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Ezreal wrote:

Didn't Numidium get destroyed?

Which one? And why was there more then one?

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Joined: 03/07/2015

Perhaps it was Sithis. If he is the root of all things then maybe he could have wiped the Dwemer out for the unnatural use of his own creation. This kinds of links to Lorkhan as I may be mistaken but I remember reading that those two are close to each other.

BSoDGaming's picture
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Joined: 03/10/2015

How the hell does  Numidium exist on multiple planes of existence? Was he made with the Heart of Lorkhan, and would that explain it?

 

Zhen Xiang's picture
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Joined: 11/03/2014

Yeah Aedric and Daedric matters are foggy and hard to understand

Proweler's picture
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BSoDGaming wrote:

How the hell does  Numidium exist on multiple planes of existence? Was he made with the Heart of Lorkhan, and would that explain it?

Why would that explain it?

Anyway here is a hint:  "The Jills did not have their full powers; rather, I should say, all the mundex spirits had every power at every time amendment at every ordering, which is to say none of them could ever fully express; our world was young and so were its architect gods."

Who can control time?

BSoDGaming's picture
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Joined: 03/10/2015

Thanks for the hint. Can't Akatosh control time, or does he just "keep track" of it?

Dvorak-Vas's picture
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Joined: 01/01/2013

Akatosh is time. The Aedra are more closely related to Forces of Nature than actual Godbeings in the sky, although they can manifest in different ways, albeit more subtle than the Daedra. Akatosh, by virtue of existing and giving of himself to create Nirn, solidified the timeline into a linear state. This linear progression of time can be disrupted by Aetherial disruption, (i.e. Numidium activating, Marukhati Selectives dancing on the Tower, the Tribunal using the Heart of Lorkhan.)

When Akatosh loses his grip on the timeline, stuff gets real crazy. The Jills are spirits who try and put things back together in a way that make sense, but they're not perfect, and can mess up. That is why during the Warp in the West, the Numidium was seen all over the place.

Proweler's picture
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BSoDGaming wrote:

Thanks for the hint. Can't Akatosh control time, or does he just "keep track" of it?

Good question. Why does this text (its from the Intercept) say all the gods controlled it when Akatosh is the god of time? Why is Akatosh even called the god of time?

The Altmeri Monomyth would be a good place to start.

Tailin Sero's picture
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Joined: 01/25/2014

I believe the Dwemer disapeared because of their use of Lorkhan's heart. To be clearer. I believe they used it in the manner that the Tribunal used it. To achieve Godhood.

At the Battle of Red Mountain the link between the dwemer and the Heart was severed and as a result the dwarves vanished, even the Rourken in Volenfell (Present day Hammerfell). To another plane, or from existance altogether? I don't know. That being said, I think there is one last Dwarf in Tel Fyr, Vvardenfell.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that if the dwemer had created the Numidium it would bring about another Dragon Break. like the Time Wound on the Throut of the World.

Proweler's picture
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Tailin Sero wrote:

I believe the Dwemer disapeared because of their use of Lorkhan's heart. To be clearer. I believe they used it in the manner that the Tribunal used it. To achieve Godhood.

At the Battle of Red Mountain the link between the dwemer and the Heart was severed and as a result the dwarves vanished, even the Rourken in Volenfell (Present day Hammerfell). To another plane, or from existance altogether? I don't know. That being said, I think there is one last Dwarf in Tel Fyr, Vvardenfell.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that if the dwemer had created the Numidium it would bring about another Dragon Break. like the Time Wound on the Throut of the World.

So what is the relation between the Dwemer and the Anumidum? Why were they building the Brass god when they were already gods?

Tailin Sero's picture
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Joined: 01/25/2014

It was a symbol of their power, craftmenship and superior knowledge over the other races.

To change someone into a god is fairly common in Tamrielic Lore, but to make a god from nothing... That is power.

Proweler's picture
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If they made a god out of nothing why did they disappear?

Zhen Xiang's picture
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I always thought Akatosh only had slight control and influence of Time and seeing the attitude he is worshipped as he would make himself appear as the Ultimate Controller of Time i might be wrong :/

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Joined: 03/25/2015

So we know Kagrenac fashioned three tools to help control the Heart of Lorkhan. We also know Anriel Gane in the Fourth Era used Keening on a representation of the Heart of Lorkhan. The Dwemer disappeared, yet so did Arniel Gane. When the Dwemer disappeared, it was on account of Kagrenac using all three tools on the heart. Gane used only one. Both disappeared. It is interesting to note that after the disappearance of Arniel Gane, the Last Dragonborn gained a spell that would summon Gane's shade...so that leaves the possibility that all the Dwemer were killed by Kagrenac "misusing" his tools, and since the Dwemer are believed to have been connected telepathically it can also be theorized that upon the death/disappearance of Kagrenac, that telepathic connection served as a transit for the power that killed the whole race. So what sort of magic could have caused that? And since Arniel Gane only used a REPRESENTATION of it, it wasn't because of the Heart of Lorkhan being the heart of a god. It is also important to note that the Nerevarine used two of the tools and survived, though that could be because he was under the protection of the Daedric Prince Azura, and she used her powers to keep him alive. Of course, the same logic could be applied to connect the disappearance of the Dwemer to the anger of the Daedra or Aedra. Surely a mechanical monstrosity such as the Numidium, which bent time itself, would have been an incredible threat to Daedra and Aedra, and possibly even Sithis Himself. So when Kagrenac struck the Heart, the Aedra or Daedra punished him and his race immediately, or the race was transported into a plane of Oblivion for endless torment for their blasphemous actions. As for Arniel Gane, perhaps the same type of thing occurred. Making a new Heart of Lorkhan, with all of its power, would have been a threat, and perhaps Azura, Aedra, or other Daedra, who watch over mortals, knew that if he succeeded, he could quite possibly reverse the effect and maybe even bring back the Dwemer, and from how the Dwemer are described, and how the Aedra and Daedra could be defeated by the Dwemer, they killed him as well. Of course, as for the spell that the Last Dragonborn gains, it could the be gods showing pity as maybe he didn't fully realize the consequences his actions could have had, so they gave someone the ability to let him walk Nirn again, even for just a short time.

Zhen Xiang's picture
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Joined: 11/03/2014

Great Theory but you can use Keening if you have wraith guard equipped so don't think Azura was protecting him from it

Tailin Sero's picture
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Proweler wrote:

If they made a god out of nothing why did they disappear?

Maybe that was the price they had to pay for creating a god.

Proweler's picture
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Why?

 

...and I can go on like this for a while. The point I'm trying to make is that to answer this question you don't just need to give a reason that explains why they disappeared. You have to ground that reason in existing parts of lore and you have to provide a motivation for the Dwemer for doing this that is also grounded in lore.

Both answers also have to answer the question in all generality. The awnsers would have to describe a process that could be applied to any race, not just the Dwemer. What people have been doing so far falls between outright fantasy and ad-hoc rationalizations.

So back to one of the bullet points I posted at the start: What does it mean to reverse "the process of the sacred willing itself into the profane"? Who are the sacred, what is the profane. How did one will itself into being the other? And why would anyone want to reverse that process?