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TESV: Skyrim

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However, cities like Whiterun don't appear to be that gritty. It seems to mostly be Windhelm and Markarth that are gritty.

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Silent Colossus wrote:

However, cities like Whiterun don't appear to be that gritty. It seems to mostly be Windhelm and Markarth that are gritty.

 

And Solitude would be right at home in High Rock or Cyrodill.

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Seras Arenim wrote:
Bummed about there being no Snow Whales though.

Um, the puzzles? And the Hall of Stories? Ya'll just ain't looking hard enough. 

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Hell, Tsun is standing on one's backbone.

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They all died, the Mudcrabs killed them.

 

Horrible creatures.

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The_Noob wrote:

They all died, the Mudcrabs killed them.

 

Horrible creatures.

 

They ain't nothin' ta f*ck with.

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Silent Colossus wrote:

Bethesda takes every too serious. That's their problem. Snow Whales, wasabi, ect. are too goofy for them.

 

Man, are you kidding? Skyrim is hilarious! I mean, bloody hell: "Let me guess: somebody stole your sweetroll?" "Have you seen those warriors from Hammerfell? They've got curved swords! Curved! Swords!" I flipped my shit the first time I heard that last one from the Nord woman who says 'suh-words'.

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Out of all the Daedric Prince quests I still haven't stumbled upong Mephala's. I've done all the other ones I'm sure and I refuse to look it up on the internet, haha.

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 Buggery!

Last night I was in the Bard's College and heard one of the professors ask a student what happened in the Red Year, but couldn't hear the response (to one of the very few overt references to the things outlined in the books!) because that bloody dumb-ass bard started singing Ragnar the Red again! I don't even like that song!

And then, I found the Monomyth and Remanada in High Hrothgar and realised I had forgotten large swathes of both! Always reread, kids. I actually, no lie, forgot the Song of Shezzar. You know, the one where it's explicitly stated that different aspects of the same gods do have separate existences instead of the thousand places it just implies it in other books. The one where the elven-aspects of the gods hate the world and their newfound weakness but the human-aspects love their new creation and newfound parental responsibility. Needless to say, I felt a fool.

EDIT: I also still hold that the big white dragon from that loading screen isn't a normal frost dragon model. The one I saw yesterday looked like a pallete swapped Odahviing. 

I'm also getting the "Dragons don't attack" glitch more often than not. For the first time I have more Words than Souls. Damnit, stop helping me, Dragons and lemme shiv you!

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Jeroic wrote:

 Buggery!

Last night I was in the Bard's College and heard one of the professors ask a student what happened in the Red Year, but couldn't hear the response (to one of the very few overt references to the things outlined in the books!) because that bloody dumb-ass bard started singing Ragnar the Red again! I don't even like that song!

You didn't miss much.

Giraud Gemane: "Good, Illdi. Soak in the lore. Jorn, what happened during the Red Year?"
Jorn: "Ummm, Morrowind suffered a massive explosion..."
Giraud Gemane: "Vvardenfell's Red Mountain erupts. Try to be precise, Jorn."

 

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Silent Colossus wrote:

Bethesda takes every too serious. That's their problem. Snow Whales, wasabi, ect. are too goofy for them.

This has always been a pet peeve of mine, but more with regard to fantasy at large than Bethesda. It is not so much that ideas like these are too goofy, but rather that their creators worry so much about being taken serious. These ideas are only goofy until you play them straight and say, "no, really"; then they become wonder. People in Morrowind walk around in glass armor, which is an idiotic idea until suddenly you understand it's not just a joke and you love it. Suddenly, it's far more serious than that nervous self-deprecating humor that is often called in to cover up the lack of imaginative magic. (I'm thinking Fable here.)

 

For the same reason, I feel Terry Pratchett often writes marvelous fantasy, seemingly without effort. Sure, in his case there's a lot of tongue-in-cheek, but beyond that the magic of his world really works just because he's not afraid of making reality out of silly puns and pop culture references.

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This cracked me up.

 

http://youtu.be/ytSocW01MDg

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 I just nerdgasmed. 

 

Lindsey Stirling is gonna cover a Skyrim song. Squeeeeeeee!

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Jeroic wrote:

 I just nerdgasmed. 

 

Lindsey Stirling is gonna cover a Skyrim song. Squeeeeeeee!

 

That girl is so hawt.

 

Anyone know an easy way to find a specific spot in the terrain outside of Skyrim in the creation kit? I'd like to take a look at some geography.

 

Edit: Never mind, it's easier to just tfc in game.

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Adanorcil wrote:

Silent Colossus wrote:

Bethesda takes every too serious. That's their problem. Snow Whales, wasabi, ect. are too goofy for them.

This has always been a pet peeve of mine, but more with regard to fantasy at large than Bethesda. It is not so much that ideas like these are too goofy, but rather that their creators worry so much about being taken serious. These ideas are only goofy until you play them straight and say, "no, really"; then they become wonder. People in Morrowind walk around in glass armor, which is an idiotic idea until suddenly you understand it's not just a joke and you love it. Suddenly, it's far more serious than that nervous self-deprecating humor that is often called in to cover up the lack of imaginative magic. (I'm thinking Fable here.)

 

For the same reason, I feel Terry Pratchett often writes marvelous fantasy, seemingly without effort. Sure, in his case there's a lot of tongue-in-cheek, but beyond that the magic of his world really works just because he's not afraid of making reality out of silly puns and pop culture references.

Well the thing about Pratchett is that he's noticed that the real world is a constant interplay of hilarity and tragedy, and he integrates that very real juxtaposition into his work. 

Skyrim may not be as overt with its weirdness as Morrowind, but I am glad it's there. Here's hoping TESVI just goes whole hog on it. especially if there's a Thalmor plotline. I also think "weird" isn't quite the right word. Help? I've been calling the Tamriel of Morrowind, Skyrim and the Pocket Guide 'Weird Tamriel" and it just isn't working for me.

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Call it Tamriel.

 

The Nords break many Norse stereotypes. Their previous gods tended to take animal forms (which was seen in Shor son of Shor), to the point where that animal defined them. Shor is a snake-god (Sep, Shor's Totem form having a "scaled mane") Kyne is a eagle/hawk. That isn't very Norse, at least not sterotypical Norse. That's ignoring how ancient Nords had just as much Egyptian influence, at least in Sovngarde (that is, Shor) related rituals as they had Norse. And probably a few I'm missing.

 

Now all we need to do is learn more about non-Alduin/Borhamu, or Shor, related worship. I guess Kyne/Kynareth has her share in the Greybeards.

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 Der M comes first. "Bormahu." I actually went back to my "just before Alduin" save to check that.

 

And I always point out the Egyptian influence in Nordic burial rituals as seen in Skyrim. Always, because it's cool and because it is not setting people on fire on a boat. Which, granted, is also pretty cool, but actually sounds more like something I'd expect of Altmer or Redguards, one being a formidable maritime (and "spacitime") force and the other having been one. 

I remember, before Rise of the Argonauts which was a fun, if disappointing, game there was a video where Artemis took the form of a doe. It was obviously a doe, but was a lot more colorful and majestic. I kind of imagine the animal-aspects of the Nord gods to be like that, where, let's say, Snake-shor would look like a brilliant green Volvagia with long, flowing scales almost like hair instead of a fiery mane and no forepaws. Which would then, of course, do battle with Alduin. Mental picture is cool. 

 

Edit: Just had a thought:

Alduin, in this process due to un-mantling or Alessia or  the changes of the Selective or whatever-you-please, is a separate dragon-god than Bormahu-Akatosh. Alduin is still the Dragon of the animal-totems in the Merethic and First Era Nord structures. Bormahu-Akatosh is, in this scenario, an "overarching god."

My example from something else would be Eru Illuvatar from Middle-Earth. He is a presence who occasionally, if indirectly, makes himself felt but is only rarely directly worshiped, instead most praise and appeals go to (or through) a sort of divine council of the Valar. In Skyrim, the gods of the Totems are the approachable, more "human" gods that you would pray to for rain or for justice of for another half hour to finish your lunch before you go back to work with Bormahu-Akatosh as the big, impersonal god in the background who the others are answerable to.

 

Just a thought.

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Jeroic wrote:

I also think "weird" isn't quite the right word. Help?

The word you are looking for, I believe, is "wonder".

 

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Jeroic wrote:

Alduin, in this process due to un-mantling or Alessia or  the changes of the Selective or whatever-you-please, is a separate dragon-god than Bormahu-Akatosh. Alduin is still the Dragon of the animal-totems in the Merethic and First Era Nord structures. Bormahu-Akatosh is, in this scenario, an "overarching god."

My example from something else would be Eru Illuvatar from Middle-Earth. He is a presence who occasionally, if indirectly, makes himself felt but is only rarely directly worshiped, instead most praise and appeals go to (or through) a sort of divine council of the Valar. In Skyrim, the gods of the Totems are the approachable, more "human" gods that you would pray to for rain or for justice of for another half hour to finish your lunch before you go back to work with Bormahu-Akatosh as the big, impersonal god in the background who the others are answerable to.

 

Just a thought.

My thoughts on the matter are pretty much the same; Alduin, for whatever reason, is one aspect of the overarching Aka-Bormahu entity.

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@Adan:

Yup, that's the one. I logged on at work just to say that. So "Wonderful Tamriel" and "Boring Tamriel" it is, then.

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I might be mincing words here, but I'm not fully sure "boring" would be the right adjective for that Tamriel.  I see it as more mundane, mainly because I associate boring with "oh god get me away from this, it is boring and I don't want anything to do with it."  While it doesn't have the wonderment, I still enjoy numerous things with the mundane Tamriel.

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It's all the same, really. There's no reason to believe the awesome, wacky stuff we read about on here couldn't have actually happened in the background to the mundane Tamriel we observe. I don't remember where the quote was or who it was by - I don't think it was Michael; might have been Kurt or even Todd - but someone mentioned the deeper parts of the lore, and said that stuff's there for fans who are interested in digging deep enough to find it, but the games themselves are designed around the concept of a sandbox where you can do anything you want, so the lore isn't forced down your throat. It's rewarding to seek it out and enjoy it, but you can enjoy the games for what they are without picking up the first book or paying attention to the quest dialogue. It's two levels that exist in the same world. I saw a trail of bread crumbs and followed it. I believe the first book I read in an Elder Scrolls game was a Homilies of Almalexia, in a tomb in Morrowind. I was doing some mundane fetch quest for the Mage's Guild or something..or maybe it was one of Caius' early quests. I read that book and found it interesting. I wanted to know more about Almalexia and who she was, and the world around me. Glad I did.

 

Thing is, it's possible to play a game like Morrowind without getting into any of that. You'd have to be a completely different type of person from me to do that, but it's theoretically possible. I think it says a lot about someone's intellectual curiosity, how they play games with that option. If I see a book in a game I haven't read yet, or wanna read again, I'll read it. I just feel compelled to. I'm currently playing through Kingdoms of Amalur, and I'm frustrated because I collected an entire book series except for volume 1 and have no idea where to find it. These are my biggest frustrations with video games. The actual hack and slash, free roam stuff..I get it. It's easy. I've been gaming since I was five. It's more rewarding to me as a player to complete that book collection without using a strategy guide or wiki, though.

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Morrowind may have had the 36 Lessons of Vivec, but it was still very hush-hush on stuff like the Psijic Endeavor... which appears to be a part of Chimer/Dunmeri religion. Either one or both.

 

Many people seem to want to return to something that didn't even exist in Morrowind.

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It couldn't be put in better words, Pilaf.

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Silent Colossus wrote:

Morrowind may have had the 36 Lessons of Vivec, but it was still very hush-hush on stuff like the Psijic Endeavor... which appears to be a part of Chimer/Dunmeri religion. Either one or both.

 

Many people seem to want to return to something that didn't even exist in Morrowind.

 

When I talk about Morrowind, I'm talking about all the forum stuff that happened around it too. The Morrowind Era if you will. The experience wasn't confined to the disk. That was a very active time for the lore. Lots and lots of actual developer input..a few very memorable RPs and fan fictions posted. It was a moment in time and now it's passed.

 

So yea...if you hear me talk about Morrowind I'm not just talking about the physical game that shipped. I'm talking about the forum culture around that time period, too. The trail of bread crumbs eventually led there for a lot of people and that was undeniably part of the ES universe for many of us.

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I wasn't around at the time. I got into the Elder Scrolls when Oblivion came out, and only got interested in the lore recently.

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 It's not a fact thing, though. The lore from Morrowind and Redguard didn't stop existing in Oblivion, after all. It's more a matter of tone. Which is why I consider Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles part of Wonderful Tamriel, see.

I should say, of course, this is all just me spewing bits and pieces of my thought processes at you. 

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I understand what you're saying, but I don't fully agree with it.

 

A lot of the really, really good stuff made it into vanilla Oblivion. It's just that it was spread out more between mundane stuff. All the new Ayleid and Imperial lore was wonderful. Mankar's commentaries were nearly as amusing as the Lessons of Vivec. The whole Mannimarco thing outwardly seemed a letdown, until you got into the whole possibility of him being a giant moon in the sky that makes black soul gems. If that doesn't qualify as good Tamriel level lore I dunno what does.

 

I think it seems to a lot of people that KOTN and SI were better because all the good stuff was more condensed with less filler. Again, though, main selling point of these games is the sandbox game - the free form. Oblivion had to be big and filled to the brim with content, which it was, but that meant the really juicy story stuff was sort of scattered around. It was definitely there though. I think it was a good lore game. If you add up all the lore books and dialogue snippets from the game you actually learn a hell of a lot more about Cyrodill than you did from all previous sources combined, including the PGE.

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 Can you find roasted ox head anywhere but in front of Shor's throne, in the game? I don't recall finding it anywhere else. 

Also, found a random Dragonborn when I went to Sovngarde in my Imperial file last night. He suggested we drink over the shared heritage.

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I don't recall that one,but it's badass and further proof that the Dragonborn thing is more complex than previous lore led us to believe.