Adanorcil
I recently started working on trying to understand Ta'Agra again. With the limited amount of examples we have this is very difficult. Still, I managed to get a few results. (See below.)
The actual reason for this post was that I think that words in a foreign should always be seen in context. And sadly, that context has gone lost. Most of the words/word chunks such as "literajo'iiliten" came from a set of pre-Morrowind interview in which Affa Mu spoke his native language. I tried to find these pages again, but not even Google seems able to find them. I can believe this has disappeared completely.
I would like to ask if anyone might still have these pages cached, saved or copied or could help me get the original wordings again. It would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Eager linguistic scholar,
Adanorcil
Going off on a slight tangent, these are some of the words I think I have managed to decypher today.
- jekosiit: Since "-iit" is similar to the English suffix "-er" and we know that this word is an insult. Let your imagination run wild, I don't think actual translations are needed. The question remains whether "jekos" is a verb or a noun.
- Quote by Jobasha:
"Rabi" shows ownership. As you see, Jobasha writes with a yellow quill, made from a cheaply dyed cliff racer plume. Telling this, Jobasha could say "zwinthodurrarr rabi," which means "Jobasha has a yellow writing stick."
I assume we can deduce that the word "zwinthodurrarr" must therefore contain the elements "to write", "stick" and "yellow." I know the word "zwinthodurr" appears in the pages mentioned above. I find it more likely that the writing stick is mentioned again.
Therefore, "zwinthodurr" is likely to be the writing stick. Which is the stick itself and which is the writing part remains to be seen, but I reckon that (if the above is all correct, which is very unlikely) durr must be the stick, since the yellow suffix -arr was added to it. Perhaps zwintho comes from a verb comparable to jekos?
**Jobasha
((I don't have my notes on Ta'agra anymore, I don't remember what I was thinking, and I doubt anyone's taken it up officially. I might make an entirely new language up from "scratch," but it wouldn't be the same one.
A better (or at least more official) place to start would be with S'rathra's dialogue in Redguard.))
Adanorcil
Unfortunately, but don't feel sorry. It was very amusing and in my opinion, fitting for the Khajiit. At least now I am certain I am not chasing ghosts. I can set my mind to other languages now. Thank you.
proweler
While looking for Ta'agra I found something else. It did not excist in public but with some magic I managed to reconstruct the text from the Ruins of the Whirlingschool.
Jobashas words reincarnated
- Cherim is Jobasha's good friend, shared much sugar, many sands. Cherim is famous tapestry maker, puts The ja'Kha'Jay in every one. white Gold is one Of His best, one Of The least often seen. it shows The White Tower, a Dragon spirals around It, a moth priest at The top. very famous moment, but few men remember. have you not heard Of Muzariah and her death at The hands Of The Three Angry men?
Muzariah was Indoril by birth and a painter by choice. Her best painting lies in The cellars Of The Imperial Palace by Imperial decree. no one wishes to destroy such beauty, but no one wishes to destroy such beauty, but no one wishes It to be seen. a dilemma. but Jobasha says too much.[this quotation is taken from a post by Jobasha (Douglas 'Affa Mu' Goodall, former BethSoft developer) at The forum TES: The Storyboard on 18 July 2004.
Why is this not listed at TIL?
While I'm drinking suger I might aswell have visions.
http://web.archive.org/web/20010905175556/www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/goods/posts0201.asp
- Are you referring to the P.G.E. by chance?
Basically, the northern desert cities and their allied tribes (Imperials called this country Anaquina) and the southern jungle cities and their allied tribes (Imperials called this country Pellitine) resolved their differences and formed a Confederacy... This sparked another war, but eventually it led to the pre-Imperial government of The Mane, er, I mean Elsweyr.
At the time the P.G.E. was written, Elsweyr had not yet been conquered by the Empire. And Tiber Septim would never have been able to conquer Elsweyr if not for BBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZHH!!
mnuhrg...
uhm...
gah...
Well, after that gentle reminder, perhaps I shouldn't talk about that. Nevermind.
Sometimes you see something nice
http://web.archive.org/web/20050222094359/www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/goods/posts0401_1.asp
- There are two, uh, "sets" of things whose names are unpronounceable. Unspellable, too. Gary's working on one of them right now, so I can sympathize.
I am also a language nut, so I can sympathize.
Zwinthodurrarr rabi.
Ahziss liter ajo'iiliten rabiba.
Ahziss aaliter vakasash.
"I have a yellow writing utensil.”
"My brother has a wonderful girl."
"I wish I was my brother."
But it looks like that is all there is.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050215201419/www.rpgplanet.com/morrowind/goods/posts0401_2.asp
- "It has got something to do with Khajiit Culture ..."
YM: Biology
Their culture came from their odd biology. They missed out on Y'ferr's decree, so Lorkhaj played a little trick on them...
"Depending on WHEN a Khajiit is born , she looks more human or feline .
The most humanoid breed , looks almost like elves , but with tails and soft fur covering parts of the torso."
One of the "humanoid" breeds looks like that.
"Depending on their Khajiit Breed they have different duties to do in Khajiit society..."
This is more a practical matter than some kind of caste-system. Obviously there are jobs you cannot do without opposable thumbs, etc.
If you ever move to Tamriel, keep in mind that there is a whole province just waiting to be introduced to the tasty fishy stick.
Skoomavision is nice. You really should try it, there is an answer to almost every question in it. Just don’t feed it to crowds, they don’t deserve the suger. They made the gods angry and now they all left us.
Solin
Reconstructed by the same methods as used by Prowler:
<> "I have a yellow writing utensil."
<> "My brother has a wonderful girl."
<> "I wish I was my brother."
The Library had this gift somewhere within it's halls but, I can no longer find it anymore. (Originally posted on the story board by Jobasha)
Xanathar
Why is this not listed at TIL?
I wonder myself...
About Cherim and Muzariah, I think the description can be put in B's Sermon Zero Analysis. Is that so, B?
At the time the P.G.E. was written, Elsweyr had not yet been conquered by the Empire. And Tiber Septim would never have been able to conquer Elsweyr if not for BBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZHH!!
I guess it's Numidium and Halls of Colossus. But it's off-topic.
Btw, Adanorcil... have luck with Redguard intro movie?
**Jobasha
((Once I had a minimal grammar and dictionary for Ta'agra, I started "testing" it by trying to translate famous movie quotes. Those are from Sabrina.
But I don't remember the grammar that created those quotes. I remember bits and pieces... Rabi was "to have." Ahziss was something like "first-person genitive singular unspecific" or, as close as you can get in English, "my." That's about all I remember, though.
My original intent was to make Ta'agra darn weird. A hybrid inflectional/agglutinative language with some really odd features like rare cases (translative, instructive, inessive, etc), no articles, few (and highly unusual) pronouns, verb "moods" instead of tenses, etc.
If I re-made it again, I probably wouldn't make it so wierd. After all, if you make a language, it needs to be familiar enough for fans to actually talk in it. Not just a "ooooh, look at me, I made a really complex language no one else understands, therefore I'm smarter than you!"
Also, just FYI, here is S'rathra's dialogue from Redguard (thank you, Bink Player). I wrote it semi-phonetical, but I have a hearing loss... And this isn't how I imagine Ta'agra would be spelled.
Kreenya, Cyrus. Ettofarwalkah etcher ohkudorrr.
Smile, Cyrus. Here's he excuse you've been looking for.Bahlee jeehater atatami.
All you mercenaries are the same.Seechoh.
Sit.Renreejee entunoor hekohwoh Imperial jah eeko pofamerrr ohtoht velk.
Ruffians in the night, heavy with Imperial coin, after some poor farmer who owes the kingdom his wife.On trahjeer.
And he taketh away. For you. (I suspect the subtitles here are wrong, and "On trahjeer" (or "Ahn trajiir" in a more Khajiit-like spelling) just means "for you." Otherwise, that's one compact language.)S'rathra korukohteretoh Hammerfell. Boshay inroht.
S'rathra knows you've said you'd never return to Hammerfell, but this seemed important.S'rathra wohreghaht.
S'rathra was concerned.Nookoh Duadeen. S'rathra eks. S'rathra eks sky'ell.
Don't worry about Duadeen. S'rathra fix. S'rathra fix anything.Roleeter dek ka uderrr.
Your sister's disappearance draws a shudder.Teport tekoh eh S'rathra nak convek warahbarahshee.
The port is full of them, and S'rathra's name goes far towards the price of passage.Sri Duadeens jah, ehpak cohjah sreek. Pur S'rathra kadoo ahliter bekoh?
Keep Duadeen's retainer. It's a family affair, after all. Tell S'rathra, why did you never mention your sister before?Kahkahturrr?
What kind?
Looks mostly isolating. Although you can't see it in the script, it doesn't sound tonal to me.
There's still room for some odd features in that example, even if it looks more like a "complex English cypher" than an actual alien language. There is obviously a little agglutination. There could be inflection, too, as long as you don't have to do vowel-matching.
Kreenya (Kriinya?) is smile (imperative, etc). Seecho (siicho?) is sit (ditto). Jah (Ja) is money or gold or coins or similar. Eks (Eks--no x in Daedric, remember) is "fix" or something close to that. Otherwise, even the vocabulary has quite a bit of wiggle room for someone who wanted to try and make a language consistent with that brief example.
Making languages from examples tends to make bad languages, though. Which is why I ignored the previous examples last time around. But in retrospect that was wrong of me. Published lore should take precedence. Especially when it sounds that cool. The voice actor did a great job with S'rathra.
Anyway, I might get around to re-creating some kind of Ta'agra, but it would be extremely unofficial. And I suspect there are only about two dozen people in the whole world who would care. But we could email each other in Ta'agra and confuse people and wave our freak flags high. It would be fun!
Well... Talk talk talk when we gonna eat? Or sleep? So, that's all for today.))
**Jobasha
I guess it's Numidium and Halls of Colossus. But it's off-topic.
Someday Jobasha tells you about the house of the Big Walker.
Adanorcil
Oh, dear...
*faints*
EDIT: Alright, now I've recovered from the shock...
But I don't remember the grammar that created those quotes. I remember bits and pieces... Rabi was "to have." Ahziss was something like "first-person genitive singular unspecific" or, as close as you can get in English, "my." That's about all I remember, though.
Feels good to see there is some sense in it.
My original intent was to make Ta'agra darn weird. A hybrid inflectional/agglutinative language with some really odd features like rare cases (translative, instructive, inessive, etc), no articles, few (and highly unusual) pronouns, verb "moods" instead of tenses, etc.
And some linguistically advanced sense at that, too.
If I re-made it again, I probably wouldn't make it so wierd. After all, if you make a language, it needs to be familiar enough for fans to actually talk in it. Not just a "ooooh, look at me, I made a really complex language no one else understands, therefore I'm smarter than you!"
Strange and difficult as it may have been, I always thought that this language (even though we had only a very limited amount of examples) fitted the Khajiit extremely well. I thought it had a nice ring to it. A bit purring, very fitting for Khajiit.
I can't really describe it for the rest, it sounds very alien, which is good, but at the same time it retains the impression of being an actual, viable language, not just gibberish. Obscured as it maybe, when there is a structure in a language, it tends to stick out. I think we are always inclined to go looking for a verb, an object, subject, even if we don't know a language.
Also, just FYI, here is S'rathra's dialogue from Redguard (thank you, Bink Player). I wrote it semi-phonetical, but I have a hearing loss... And this isn't how I imagine Ta'agra would be spelled.
As I am writing this, I am downloading the file myself. I have already listened to it once. It sounds promising and more clear than I had expected.
I will be studying these notes too.
Anyway, I might get around to re-creating some kind of Ta'agra, but it would be extremely unofficial. And I suspect there are only about two dozen people in the whole world who would care. But we could email each other in Ta'agra and confuse people and wave our freak flags high. It would be fun!
Freak flags ahoy! Sounds very interesting.
This thread was started on December 26th, 2005, and is on of our best sources on Ta'agra, the speech of the Khajiit. Jobasha is played by Douglas Goodall.
A few posts have been omitted. The original version of this thread can be found here.