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Simulacrum

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Od
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The second to see the Brass God was the Enantiomorph. You may know them individually as Zurin Arctus and Talos. The Oversoul was known to the world as Tiber Septim They gave birth to their Mantella, this time an embodiment of the healing of the Man/Mer schism, and, with it, Anumidum Walked. But, by then, and for a long time coming, One betrayed the Other, and the world shuddered as they split, and the Anumidum went berserk and created an Empire of Evil to house the malignant half of its soul.
 
Was Tharn motivated from a Marukhati philosophy? Was his Simulacrum actually a Nu-Mantine intervention to liberate the continent from a malignant Empire? I've always been apprehensive about labeling Tharn a terrorist, but neither would I celebrate his methods. What do you think was Jagar Tharn's goal?
 
 
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According to the popular belief, Jagar Tharn was a Dagonite. The people think it because of the alliance between Jagar Tharn and Mehrunes Dagon. In practice, Jagar Tharn gave the Battlespire to Dagon and Dagon gave Daedric doppelgangers to Jagar to replace the Imperial Guard. 

But we are not really sure Jagar is a Dagon cultist. He could just be a man who made a Daedric pact, like numerous others. 

Jagar Tharn is really linker to Padomay. He wrote Source of Chaos, he used the Staff of Chaos, he is believed to be "almost wholly aligned with the Dark" (Padomay).

In Source of Chaos, he talks about the Padomay of Artaeum and Sithis, the Padomay of Morrowind. He knows at least a few doctrines of the Psijic Order, of the Morag Tong and of the Dark Brotherhood. With his ties with Dagon, he could have some Dagonite knowledge, like the Mythic Dawn does. 

He was a mage-priest at the Temple of Sethiete (Seth) in Camlorn. Seth is believed to be Sithis or at least tied to Sithis by many people in TES lore community. A Jagar's ally, servant of Mehrunes Dagon, during the Simulacrum is with the Dark Brotherhood in Morrowind (the one which is tied to Sithis and Dagon). 

If you believe Kama Fyr is a developer, you must know this quotation of hers about the Jagar's plan. 

To ameliorate the deleterious effects of dragon breaks on the events of the fifth and/or first era.   

This one could link the Simulacrum to the Numidium and Tiber Septim enantiomorph and/or to the Numidium and the Marukhati Dragon Break.

So, is the Simulacrum a Marukhati project?

Maybe. 

On one side, the Psijic Order beliefs inspired "the beginnings of the Alessian Order, the Temple of the One in Cyrodiil, most Maruhkati sects (including the Selectives, though they would deny it)", according to Vivec. So it could work if Jagar is a Marukhati inspired by Psijic doctrines. 

Besides, Jagar Tharn is from House Tharn, like Fervidius Tharn, Arch-Prelate of the Marukhati Selective

On the other side, the Dagonites of the Mythic Dawn and the Marukhati have some similarities in their doctrines: all focused on Nu-Mantia. Perhaps Jagar is a Dagonite that we misinpertret as a Marukhati. 

Moreover, Calaxes Septim, Uriel VII's bastard son and Archbishop of The One, probably tried a theocratical coup (so like the Alessian Order), but was assassinated by the Imperial Guard, so the Daedric doppelgangers of Jagar Tharn during the Simulacrum. 

Therefore, is Jagar Tharn a Dagonite, a Marukhati, a freelance vilain? I could say he stays very mysterious for me. 

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Another link between Jagar Tharn and the Marukhati Selective is breaking the Staff of Chaos into eight pieces, while "the Tower split into eight pieces and Time broke" when the Marukhati danced on the Tower, according to Where were you when the Dragon broke. Eight seems to be a special number in the TES universe, though. The eight stars falling on Nirn during the Dragon Break and the Eight Divines...

Actually, did he enforce any world-changing decree? Did he change the Empire? I don't remember anything radical, but I didn't play TES: Arena, so I might be very mistaken. This implies that he might have wanted the things to stay as they are. To stop Uriel VII Septim from changing something, be it something real or something from Jagar's imagination. Perhaps a fulfillment of a prophecy (since we know Uriel VII was in love with these things) but unfortunately for himself Tharn "triggered" fulfillment of another prophecy?

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The Lusty Dovahkiin wrote:

...I didn't play TES: Arena, so I might be very mistaken.

If you're interested, here is the main questline dialogue for Arena.

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I don't know what ESO has to say about him though but looks like it's mostly just blank canvas. As written in Arena I don't think his motivations break the stereotypical image of Jaffar the treacherous Grand Vizier. Which interestingly enough is a benevolent figure in the Thousand and One Nights. At the root of which is some lovely religious infighting.

I don't like the idea of painting him as a cultist of any kind. Rather what little we do have hints at Tharn being an erudite, intelligent and well spoken character with a wide knowledge of different metaphysical views as seen in Source of Chaos. Quite charming even if Barenziah is to be believed.  Of-course he was wearing Visage du Emperor cologone at the time which may have been part of the attraction.

So I don't think Tharn was a Dagonite. Rather I think he simply traded with Dagon in mutually beneficial way. Like say Diviath Fyr or Master Neloth. Though the stakes were a bit higher this time round. With the resources of an Empire at his disposal Tharn could have made incredible trades with Dagon.  It would even be in his benefit to the keep the Emperor alive as the barrier makes his services that much more valuable.

@LiquidHurlant, from the context of the quote I'm having trouble connecting 'empire of evil' to Jagers reign.  The betrayal of 'somebody' by Tiber Septim happend well before the Imperial Simulacrum.

 

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Tailin Sero wrote:

The Lusty Dovahkiin wrote:

...I didn't play TES: Arena, so I might be very mistaken.

If you're interested, here is the main questline dialogue for Arena.

Thanks!

Proweler wrote:

I don't know what ESO has to say about him though but looks like it's mostly just blank canvas.

But there is only Abnur Tharn in ESO. His ancestor. It's long, long before Jagar Tharn was born. It's happening even before Tiber Septim's birth.

Tailin Sero's picture
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The Lusty Dovahkiin wrote:

Proweler wrote:

I don't know what ESO has to say about him though but looks like it's mostly just blank canvas.

But there is only Abnur Tharn in ESO. His ancestor. It's long, long before Jagar Tharn was born. It's happening even before Tiber Septim's birth.

I was gonna point out the same thing, but you beat me to it.

Od
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@Proweler The Empire of Evil is still Tiber's empire. I was just wondering if the Simulacrum was Tharn's red blot, inspired by Marukhati philosophies.