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Nord speaks of Padomey after singing of Dagon in the First Fight

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Baldur Red-Snow's picture
Joined: 11/12/2013


Posting this link here, to discuss what was talked about in the thread. The discussion was about Padomey and how in the story of my final days, I as an old man said I thought to the Nords of Skyrim, once upon a time the All-Maker could have been Padomey. My story and song here:

The story in the song below belongs to Michael Kirkbride:

Spoiler: Highlight to view

"Papa Bear, Papa Bear, sing us another one!" said the young child. In a home somewhere North of Skyrim in a town by the coast was a large Nord family, consisting of many individuals. The majority of them were outside in the freezing snow, keeping warm by their Nord blood and the monumental fire that burst forth to the skies after they made their offering to Kyne. Inside the house were many little Nord cubs, all gathered around an old man in bear furs. His hands for mits wore a frost bear's paws with the claws resting over his hands. The younglings of various ages wore similar attire, as was custom of story time in this large Nord village.
"Okay, okay. One more tale I'll sing, but then I really must be on my way. You saw the fire. I must make the offering to Shor now and be on my way," said the old man. His voice in his old age was now gruff and hoarse, also due to the elf ear and candis root rolls that his wife loved smoking so much, and naturally he did as well. Yet even still, when the man sang, it was somehow light and sweet. He was said to be blessed by Shor with a silver forked tongue, charming in speech and could sing a sabre cat to sleep, and had to once, for the talents of the Nord voice are many and not just limited to the thu'um. And he could sing the feathers off a hawk. His wife knew that first hand. It's how the old man made such a large family....
The old man was once a battle-bard, a famous Nord General, but now he was just a bard. Yet still every bit as famous. So much that another King in a much farther land was waiting for him to come and make a journey to his hall so that he and his many warriors could hear him sing themselves. That was where his wife was waiting.
The man looked around him to make sure that all the children were paying attention. They were cubs of his cubs, too many for his weary old eyes to count anymore. The labor of he and his wife's love. Smiling at the attentive eyes of all around him, the man began his tale.
"Let's go back a bit. I told you about how Shor defeated Alduin, but you don't seem to grasp the greatness of this deed. So now we go back to Fight One, The Eating-Birth of Dagon.
These were the days of Hoag the Greater..."
"I thought it was Hoag Merkiller!" said the youngest in front of him. The other children started shushing him now so that their grandpa would continue.
"No more questions now, this isn't even in our same kalpa. Now, listen. These were t-" The old man stopped once more when the children who had shushed the youngest child now all raised their paw and white fur covered hands.
"Yes, little cubs?" he asked.
"What's a kalpa?"
The old man sighed, then said, "Ugh, it's the world before ours and the world after. The time that never was and the time that always will be." That caused even more paws to raise, but the man ignored them and went about singing his tale.
"These were the days of Hoag Merkiller"
"Haha, you said Merkiller, you said Merkiller!"
"Damnit children, everyone hush, or I won't sing the tale! I have to go soon!" There was pain in the man's voice, a pain all the children shared. For this gathering of their clan wasn't a pleasant occasion. After his outburst, the old man began to shed tears, which caused all of the little cubs to gather around him in an embrace, refusing to let him remain saddened. After he apologized and he put himself together, the old man finally continued with his tale.
"These were the days of Hoag the Greater, born in a giant's boot,
The world in the gales of time gave way, broken and gone were it's roots,
Long ago did the All-Maker's Goat's bells ring, for that was always their way,
Clamoring, clanging in Sarthaal and the world, calling the end of days,
Alduin's shadow crept forth long and dark, cast like carpetflame,
South, East, West and North, to tumultuously tame,
With great and fiery flame he came, to force feed this world made seether,
As far as every man's eyes could see, was the great one, the Epoch Eater!
Only Hrothgaar was above the churning coils, wings flapping to and fro,
And as men they made tremble and made twisters and typhoons, he said, "Ho Ha Ho."
Seven mountains still remained through the Mereth, like Hrothgaar above his wings,
And a Leaper devil, a kindly Leaper Demon who went by Leaper Demon King,
He came a hopping and waving his arms, hollering hoarse voiced like a girl,
Jumping he leaped forth to great Alduin above the nilphony swirl,
Alduin who always eats us Nords first, watched as this King did fret,
'Wait wait wait', he said at fast rate, 'It's not time to eat this world yet!'
Alduin roared and laughed out loud, laying flat as he drank river beds,
And after his thirst was sated he stood before the King, then said,
'King of Leapers, you always bounce forth, around my feeding time,
Calling and crying, carrying on as if what I do is crime,
For you are one of the only spirits that last, until my very last bite...
Calling out 'wait' but I never do, and won't now in your cowardly fright,
Now go and wait atop Hrothgaar in dignity, after all this time haven't you learned?
The two dinner bells have went GONG! GONG! And that means the kalpa has turned,'
The Leaper Demon King knew all of this was true, and that Alduin wouldn't hear it,
But he still did his best and before Alduin, said, 'Wait first and last of the spirits!
The kalpa turning has come too soon! I can prove it!' he said in alarm,
'See atop Red Mountain is the Greedy Man! See how he waveth his arms?'
Alduin swallowed more of the Mereth, the destruction of Njorvela and Teed county,
Then he looked over to the Greedy Man, once he had consumed his great bounty,
Indeed the Greedy Man was waving his arms as if to tell him to stop,
It was as he said this strange Demon King, the one who loved to hop,
Alduin snorted, then snot farms shot out, falling away as they stalled,
But the Epoch Eater caught them on his tongue, for Alduin did consume all,
He said, 'And he always does this at this time, to stop my meal just like you.'
Its as if together to try and delay me is what you two are up to....
Is that what you do? Is that what you do? Does some low spirit each time,
Hide pieces of the world while you distract me, confess, come tell me your crimes!
Is that why the kalpa feast seems to grow bigger, because of you two? I wonder...
Tell me, you swine as I destroy and dine!' And Alduin's Voice did make thunder,
Alduin stared hard at the Greedy Man from afar and at the Demon King close up,
One with each eye and they knew that he knew. They gulped hard for the jig was up,
'Oh crap, he knows about my deal, he knows what among us was said!,
'I better hide under a mountain,' he cried as he turned around and fled,
The Greedy man said and thought all this too fast, And did not see already consumed,
Was the whole mountain, only left was the base, on it he lay and was doomed,
Already eaten by Omega and Alpha, And that is how he was trapped in and out of the Kalpas,
'Oh crap,' the Leaper Demon King said too, as over him Alduin the World Eater loomed,
And at once that Demon King soon did confess, deep in fear was the King and leaper,
Wasting no time, for none was there left, he said, 'You found us out, Alduin, World-Eater!'
Yes, just after the two bells of the All-Maker's Goat sound the Greedy Man and I,
And our servants hoard bits and bobs of the world so you can't eat all, and that's why,
It is all bigger and bigger for you to eat each and every time,
But it was not my idea, my crime, I swear to you as I rhyme!
The Greedy man hates you so much, you know, he came up with this, don't you see?
So that one kalpa when you'd ate too much, you'd explode and the world would be free!'
Alduin's gut ached because it was stretched, and this never happened before,
But now he knew why, he whose wings covered sky, and now he would settle the score,
He grew furious and in his great rage he boomed out, 'You two think yourselves clever?!?
You stupid little [censored], don't you know what would happen if the kalpa would run forever?'
Alduin's belly had now grown fat, and in his rage before the King, he sat,
Then he said, "Why ask you, a lowly hopping spirit, its the Greedy Man that I should be mad at!'
Seeing a way out of this mess, the Leaper King nodded too eagerly,
Saying, 'Yes, yes, yes!' and Alduin knew, as he continued vigorously,
Any mercy granted upon the Demon King would not lead to true learning,
So Alduin knew what he must do, as for mercy the poor King was yearning,
And he said, 'The Greedy Man has [censored] himself good, to hide in something that no longer exists,
So now for you I lay a curse that shall forever and ever persist!
You Dagon, shall no longer jump, and jump and jump that way,
I doom you to Oblivion where you cannot leave, except on auspicious days!
Long apart these days they are, and still even then,
You'll only leave with very hard work, and to make sure you never see end,
It will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed,
What you've hidden away from the 'No Longer Days', until then you stay in the void!
Dagon screamed, 'No please! We've stolen so much! Hidden in crazy places so clever!
With those conditions, it's an endless mission! This task will take me forever!'
I beg of you, BEG OF YOU, O Aka, beg, one hundred thousand and eight times I plead!
And that many times Dagon surely did plead, but Alduin would not forgive this deed,
And halfway through this number he shut his eyes tight! To really mean it and to plead in his fright,
Then three quarters through he shouted to escape his plight, to really really mean it with all of his might,
But when he was done and his eyes did then open, he saw Alduin was gone,
No longer was the World Eater near the mountaintop that he stood on,
After many looks east, west, south and north, he realized that his fate was grim,
For all that he saw was churning dragon stop, everywhere and all around him,
Alduin had descended over him, large and as if a dark cloud,
Dagon hadn't heard the great large chomp because he was begging too loud,
And he knew now the last world was eaten away, except for it's stolen portions,
Of which he now had to go and destroy, this was the once King's misfortune,
He knew when the new kalpa had come along, the Greedy man would hide them once more,
He never stayed trapped for long and Dagon knew he'd hop...nevermore,
He also knew the name Dagon would not be the name of a kindly King Demon,
But of one who would burn and destroy and destroy, when he found an escape from Oblivion,
So if you come across that demon, ass red in the snow,
Laugh at him now and remind him of this, and in sorrow the demon will go."
The old man started to cough in a fit when he finished his retelling of the Nord legend, then one of his grandchildren passed him a mead to clear his throat. The old man drank deep, then thanked the boy once he was relieved, then said, "Any questions?" All the children raised their hands and he pointed to a blonde girl in the middle of the group. "Yes?"
"Who's the All-Maker?"
"The all maker is Padomey," said the old man, not truly knowing for sure, but figuring it wasn't important.
"But I thought the All-Maker was Shor," said another child. "That's what it said in Fight Four!"
"No child, it said the Nords fool talk the Doom Drum's father as the All-Maker. I theorized that it was Shor, because of the other tale, Shor son of Shor. Perhaps we Nords once called Padomey Shor, just as my son named you after him, Brunwin," the old man smiled now and ruffled the boy's head that he had spoken to. As the old Nord was about to take another question, that boy's father, Brunwin Red-Snow, the name of their clan came forth.
"Father, if you still wish to take your journey, you should give Shor his offering while the pyre is hot." The old man's smile stayed, for although he was saddened, it would be time to make the journey to that King's hall where his wife patiently waited for him.
"Okay children, I must go. Once I make my offering, I will leave to see your grandma."
"Oh, but can't you stay for a little while longer?" Brunwin asked.
"No, cub, I can't. I wait too long, your grandma will tear my hide, heh."
"Are you worried about her other husband before you?" another child asked.
"Ha! Not at all, your grandma loves me and me alone. I have nothing to fear on my arrival. Now run along, children. Your parents aren't happy with how late I've kept you," said the old man. One of the children started to cry now, the youngest one from before who asked about Hoar Merkiller. "Don't cry, child. I won't be gone too long. You'll all come with me sooner than you think, but don't try and rush it! You have a clan name to carry out and grow. One day, you or one of your children, or even your children's children will have a very important role to play. I'm certain, we Red-Snows have a purpose.
"Father, you must hurry. The pyre is receding." The old man sighed, then stood up now, reluctantly leaving the young faces that all reminded him of himself or his wife, which then made him happy as he was reminded that he'd be seeing her soon. He was saddened by the pyre a great deal. So much that the tears that froze as they fell from the weather had clinged to his cheeks and almost completely covered his cheeks and neck, as well as his long white beard hair. His mouth moved under his beard as he watched the great fire before him, risen up high still from the offering to Kyne. His wife.
She was always said to be a favored of Kyne, a great Captain and coincidentally a descendent of Rebec the Red. She was the offering made once she passed away, to the old man's great sorrow. So deep that he had almost taken his life right then and there when he saw her lifeless, but his children wouldn't let him. Until now. 
He was to be the next offering, said to be a favored of Shor. To be reunited with his wife, who he always called a daughter of Kyne. He stood before the pyre now, his children, now adults at his back, saddened that their father would not change his mind. Yet he smiled, and walked forth boldly, for boldly was what he must be to see the King's great hall of Valor where his wife awaited. As the man ran forth and added his offering to the pyre to Shor, no screams were heard, none but the great fire that too burst forth from his offering. For it was through pain of death that he would find eternal happiness. And that is what he found, forever with his wife at his side. And so did end the life of Baldur Red-Snow.

I commented that I really didn't know, but from Michael Kirkbride's Fourth Fight, I believe, it said the Nords "Fool talk" the Doom Drum's father as the All Maker. Well, the first clue as to it being wrong, or not quite right is that it is mentioned as "fool talk". And the Skaal seem too Anuic to be secretly worshiping Chaos.

I explain how that could be later on though:


So, is the All-Maker both Padomey and Anu, or one of Anu's spirits?



Joined: 06/19/2013

There isn't really an actual 'All-Maker'.  Anu and Padomay are more like forces of nature rather than actual sentient 'gods' or 'spirits'.  The creation of the universe was more of a reaction between these two forces, rather than any kind of design.  

However if by All-Maker you mean something more like Nirn-Maker, than the best answer would be Shor/Lorkhan.

Bibliophael's picture
Joined: 01/03/2011

I understand a common theory is that the All-Maker is the Skaal's dim understanding of the Dreamer.

Baldur Red-Snow's picture
Joined: 11/12/2013

Edgzoi wrote:

There isn't really an actual 'All-Maker'.  Anu and Padomay are more like forces of nature rather than actual sentient 'gods' or 'spirits'.  The creation of the universe was more of a reaction between these two forces, rather than any kind of design.  

However if by All-Maker you mean something more like Nirn-Maker, than the best answer would be Shor/Lorkhan.


Well, technically the one who made everything in the universe would be the Godhead, whoever that is. Anu achieved amaranth, but it isn't clear to me if he's dreaming this dream or his own. But the question's pointing to who the mortals think is the all maker. Lorkhan could make sense, but in the Fourth Fight, it says the Nords called Shor's father the all maker. That would have to be the force Chaos, or Padomey unless MK meant Lorkhan because Shor is an aspect of Lorkhan, the oversoul.


That could be it, since Alduin calls himself first born of Akatosh, which to me just means first split from the original time god, which people presently think is Akatosh the Imperial god (Although he is not).

Joined: 06/19/2013

I know that this is a bit off-topic, but the story made me think of something.  (Mostly just bringing this up because I couldn't find any problems with what you said) I've always wondered how all these Nord bards, or anyone else on Nirn for that matter, know what happened before the Convention.  My best guess would be that some asked Hermamus Mora, but even then I would guess that bards would spread a lot of misinformation since stories always change in the telling.

Baldur Red-Snow's picture
Joined: 11/12/2013

Off topicness is the natural progression of things, so no problem to me. The song in that story wasn't a tale that Nord bards knew, at least to my knowledge. Its possible some did and thought it nothing but a story. Nord bards spin tales all the time like that, which is why it feels like it fits. The idea that other worlds existed before seems to be known, since Alduin is called the world eater, so it's possible a Nord could have made that story up, based on some inkling of the truth unknown in source. The way that the characters in MK's text talk, with the swearing and so on always feels to me like the Nord storytellers added flavor for more pizzazz in the storytelling.

Gnomey's picture
Joined: 03/18/2012

The Nords were told by their fathers, who were told by their fathers, and so on and so forth. All mortals are descended from et'Ada; the ones who first told the tales were those who had witnessed them. Usually. Much like the memory of Aldmeris.

That being said, the et'Ada definitely didn't speak common tongue, and Nords generally don't bother with written histories, so much would have been lost in translation. Even before translation, witnesses generally don't see the whole truth, so their tales would have been very objective from the start. And then any number of ancestors could have felt like tweaking the story this way or that way to suit their tastes. So while many of the tales may have come from the et'Ada in a pretty unbroken line, they would have gone through many changes in doing so.

That could also be their strength, though, as I suspect oral traditions hold together through Dragon Breaks better than written records, by virtue of being so flexible. While written records are either lost, become defunct or fail to describe events that occur during a Dragon Break, oral tradition is able to preserve the old reality while acknowledging the new reality, as well as the process through which the one becomes the other. I suspect it is for that reason that Nords don't keep records, and everyone else thinks Nords like to tell tall tales. (And everyone else is right, of course).