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Merish Lifespans

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Joined: 06/21/2012

This subject has been very interesting (and quite frustrating) to me. In the lore (as far as I know), we have never been given a set average of the lifespan of the average Mer. It is said that the Altmer are one (probably THE) longest living races in all of Tamriel. Yet how long are they usually living?

 

From the vast amount of time implied, I'd say that they live at least a little over two thousand years (plus one hundred for the Altmer thanks to Phynaster). But I could be wrong though. Any thoughts?

YH
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Elves don't have an average lifespan because they don't have an average anything. Elven life cycles don't work like humans, especially not the high elves, and many of the longer lived individuals are adept at magic.

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The lore seems to state that there is a somewhat average lifespan for the Mer (at least for the Altmer, from what I've gathered) including their extra one hundred years. I don't ever recall reading that they all have different measurements of longevity from individual to individual.

YH
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Last I checked, the Dunmer are normally conditionally fertile, and can only have children when their population dips, except when interbreeding with humans for some reason. You have individuals like Queen Barenziah who is several hundred years old, and Divayth Fyr who is several thousand.

 

I don't know about the Bosmer, and Altmer supposedly clone themselves, or so I've heard.

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I don't know about the Bosmer either, but I do know a bit about the Altmer's breeding habits. Supposedly, they practice Eugenics, pretty much (which is actually a good thing for their people). They breed children with the desired genes. Those who do not meet the requirements are go through infanticide.

 

One source (obviously a very pro Empire source, written in one of the PGEs during the time that Alinor/Summerset Isle was having conflicts with each other) said that they put down nine out of ten children due to impurities (this is often seen as extreme hyperbole or just plain false with that many being put down).

 

I also just found this:

 

Quote:
 A leader of the Psijics, Rite Master Iachesis, apparently led them throughout the entire First Era (about three thousand years), giving some indication of the potential longevity of the Altmer.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Altmer#Society_and_Religion

Lady N's picture
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Tauryon wrote:

 I don't ever recall reading that they all have different measurements of longevity from individual to individual.

Everyone has different measures of longevity from individual to individual. Are you a rural farmer who works from dusk till dawn? You're probably not going to live as long as a nobleman with a leisurely lifestyle. Is your community in a location that has perpetual droughts and famines, or are your parents from such a community? You're probably not going to live as long as someone who lives in a mild, consistent climate and whose parents died of a ripe old age. 

 

Lifespan depends as much on environmental factors and how you live your life as it does on your genetics. Perhaps more, if Tamriel is like earth. 

 

It seems to me that elves can essentially live forever with the right sort of care. The vast majority don't, of course, but there doesn't seem to be a hard limit. 

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We have been given no average or certainty if their is an average. There is a farmer woman in Skyrim, a Dunmer, who is at least 200 and looks to be on the lower end of middle age, but elven cultural propensity for magic muddies the waters so much that it may render the question irrelevant.

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Very interesting input you guys; thank you. 

 

I agree about magic. It seems that magic (and especially those who wield with with efficiency) tend to live longer than others. But still, though. The whole thing with Phynaster teaching the Altmer to live (naturally) one hundred more years by taking shorter strides seems to suggest that there seems to be a general (rather than an absolute or set) average life span.

 

I'm thinking of "Well, the Altmer generally live for about _____ to _____ years, but it's not uncommon for many of them to live even longer lives". I do think it would be helpful, though, to have an understanding of how long they can generally live to better grasp Merish longevity and how they view things.

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We just don't have enough data, Tauryon. Any estimate you make would be as good as any estimate we make. And besides, once you get up there into the life spans lasting centuries, I think it matters very little whether one's average lifespan is three hundred years or three thousand. Its up there, and perhaps unimaginable to us mere humans.

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Yes, I know there isn't a lot 

of data other than a vague reference here and there. All we can do is guess at how long the average Mer of each Merish race would usually live. 

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According to Alvur Relds (dunmer), the average life span of their family is 130 years, and he suggests that the same goes for most dunmers.

Pilaf The Defiler's picture
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Ralen wrote:

According to Alvur Relds (dunmer), the average life span of their family is 130 years, and he suggests that the same goes for most dunmers.

 

Except several in-game sources in Skyrim display Dunmer who make references to being at least 200 years old, and appear to be quite young, fit and healthy.

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The life expectancy could have also changed, as it has with us homo sapiens, over time, due to a shift in standard of living. But if that were the case, one would typically expect the life expectancy to shorten after the Red Year, what with the displacement of large swathes of Dunmer population following a series of catastrophes. Though it is hard to say. Medicine has probably advanced little over the years in TES.

A more ES-y explanation might be that the Dunmer are slowly undergoing another racial shift. First they were Aldmer, then Chimer under the Daedra and ancestors, then Dunmer under the Tribunal, and now that the Tribunal are gone, they are changing again. That's also my interpretation of why Vivec let the moon drop: the Tribunal are gone, so the Dunmer have to find a new way of life, rather than living in the husk of a fallen ideal. Though on the other hand, living in husks comes naturally to Dunmer.

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That's a beautiful and poetic thought, but I doubt Bethesda put that much effort into it. More than likely they're sticking with the one "1000 year Elven lifespan" mentioned in The Real Barenziah. It's never been flatly contradicted so it's a decent rule of thumb, but as Lady N said it depends on quality of life.

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Gnomey wrote:

The life expectancy could have also changed, as it has with us homo sapiens, over time, due to a shift in standard of living. But if that were the case, one would typically expect the life expectancy to shorten after the Red Year, what with the displacement of large swathes of Dunmer population following a series of catastrophes. Though it is hard to say. Medicine has probably advanced little over the years in TES.

You might be onto something. During the Red Year most of the peasants died and most of the nobility survived. So during the time of Skirim you have higher chance of meeting older dunmers, because they are the ones who survived the Red Year. :-)

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@Pilaf

Thats from Daggerfall though. Allot of things from Daggerfall have never been contradicted, rather they have been nuanced.

For the Dunmer we have Alvur Relds, Dyviath Fyr and Barenziah as markers. And they're all over the place. So right now you could say that a thousand year life span was a poetic expression that refers to their general longevity.

For Altmer I haven't seen much besides Phynaster and a suggestion in the 1st PGE. Though for Phynaster to be relevant his contribution of 100 years must have been significant. On a thousand year life span it would be a little underwhelming.  But yeah, there no definite answers.

 

Girai_the_Zealous's picture
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It is something of an indicator of how little we have taken the Merish perspective in past games that we still don't even really know how long their lifespans are in patented terms.

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We're never directly told, but again - the new evidence from Skyrim is compelling. If I'm remembering correctly there's even a Bosmer who is well over 100 and appears to be in what we'd consider his twenties.  None of the Elves we meet of advanced age seem to be particularly wealthy or good with magicka, besides possibly Gelebor or Archmage Savos Aren. They're usually farmers or soldiers or something. That would cut down the theory that only the wealthy live for hundreds of years. The lady who was an apothecary in Vivec City was working as a simple farmer in Skyrim.

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Lady N wrote:

Tauryon wrote:

 I don't ever recall reading that they all have different measurements of longevity from individual to individual.

Everyone has different measures of longevity from individual to individual. Are you a rural farmer who works from dusk till dawn? You're probably not going to live as long as a nobleman with a leisurely lifestyle. Is your community in a location that has perpetual droughts and famines, or are your parents from such a community? You're probably not going to live as long as someone who lives in a mild, consistent climate and whose parents died of a ripe old age. 

 

Lifespan depends as much on environmental factors and how you live your life as it does on your genetics. Perhaps more, if Tamriel is like earth. 

 

It seems to me that elves can essentially live forever with the right sort of care. The vast majority don't, of course, but there doesn't seem to be a hard limit. 

That's what I figured, but why would Altmer be so obsessed with becoming gods then? If they just live carefully and study magic, unless they're actully killed there isn't really a way for them to die...

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"But this was a trick. As Lorkhan knew, this world contained more limitations than not and was therefore hardly a thing of Anu at all. Mundus was the House of Sithis. As their aspects began to die off, many of the et'Ada vanished completely. Some escaped, like Magnus, and that is why there are no limitations to magic. Others, like Y'ffre, transformed themselves into the Ehlnofey, the Earthbones, so that the whole world might not die. Some had to marry and make children just to last. Each generation was weaker than the last, and soon there were Aldmer. Darkness caved in. Lorkhan made armies out of the weakest souls and named them Men, and they brought Sithis into every quarter.

"Auriel pleaded with Anu to take them back, but he had already filled their places with something else. But his soul was gentler and granted Auriel his Bow and Shield, so that he might save the Aldmer from the hordes of Men. Some had already fallen, like the Chimer, who listened to tainted et'Ada, and others, like the Bosmer, had soiled Time's line by taking Mannish wives.

Monomyth : Heart of the World

Auri-El (King of the Aldmer): The Elven Akatosh is Auri-El. Auri-El is the soul of Anui-El, who, in turn, is the soul of Anu the Everything. He is the chief of most Aldmeri pantheons. Most Altmeri and Bosmeri claim direct descent from Auri-El. In his only known moment of weakness, he agreed to take his part in the creation of the mortal plane, that act which forever sundered the Elves from the spirit worlds of eternity. To make up for it, Auri-El led the original Aldmer against the armies of Lorkhan in mythic times, vanquishing that tyrant and establishing the first kingdoms of the Altmer, Altmora and Old Ehlnofey. He then ascended to heaven in full observance of his followers so that they might learn the steps needed to escape the mortal plane.

Faith in the Empire

 

Not becoming gods. Rather it is about preserving and eventually returning to what they once were. They hold that they are descendants from Auri-El that became weaker and more numerous with each generation.

edit: This distinction also matters when trying to understand the Dwemer. It's not about becoming gods, but returning to what they once where.

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Oh someone caclulated this out over at heros of the elder scrolls

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There's always an average, just not necessarily a normal distribution.

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I think it depends on the race. The Orsimer are probably more towards that of men, if not by natural death it would be by combat...

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Do we have an idea of the longest living Mer of each respective race? The longest living Dunmer that I can think of is Barenziah...

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The longest living dunmer is obviously Divayth Fyr (4000+) who is also the longest known living mortal on Tamriel (it is suggested that there are some mages on Summerset Isles that could be older, but it's just a speculation).

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ChildofKyne wrote:

Do we have an idea of the longest living Mer of each respective race? The longest living Dunmer that I can think of is Barenziah...

 

Divayth Fyr is at least four times her age.

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Ralen wrote:

The longest living dunmer is obviously Divayth Fyr (4000+) who is also the longest known living mortal on Tamriel (it is suggested that there are some mages on Summerset Isles that could be older, but it's just a speculation).

I thought the Sload effectively lived forever too, although I could be pulling that out of my arse

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The Sload are not Merish though... hell I don't think anyone knows what the truly are. They just make me think of Jabba the Hut.

Also the Sload are Necromancers, so wouldn't it be possible that they turn themselves into Liches? I dunno. 

So Dunmer might be the longest living merish folk?

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The sload are rather detailed. They're slug-like beings. Their name comes from slug + toad. They're not all necromancers; they just have a high capability for magic.

No, the Altmer are probably the longest lived. The Dunmer who we are talking about are unusual for living so long. The Altmer are probably the longest lived of all of the main races of Tamriel.