Lawrence Schick and Phrastus on Altmer Culture, Part 2

Atharaon:
Thank you (or Phrastus, if you prefer) immensely for your responses to my questions. It's amazing how beautifully some of them sync up well with our own ideas - Syrabane in particular. You've also cleared up our understanding of Xen. I confess I was hoping for a little bit more about Phynaster so we can build around it, haha.

Lawrence:
Sorry, on Phynaster, I got nothin'.

Atharaon:
That's cool. He's so obscure as it is. If there's at least a possibility he was also et'Ada, it would allow us to go beyond the Ring story. Was there ever any discussion about him when developing Summerset, or any indication if any of the sculptures in game might represent him? We could then try to decode the symbolism.

Lawrence:
Some discussion of tying him to the Direnni, I think, but it never went anywhere, as the Direnni ended up pretty peripheral to the story.

Atharaon:
So the door is open to him being pretty much anything we wish, I take it? Our thoughts were to provide multiple conflicting stories, with some saying he had been around at Creation and others saying he came along later. The Direnni we had as followers of Phynaster who actually left Summerset due to a prophecy/Phynasterian religious edict/fate but whose actions seemed eccentric to the more standard Aldmer.

Lawrence:
That sounds fine, pretty much on the money.

Atharaon:
We were not sure whether to promote the similarities with Kynareth either. Did that ever get mentioned?

Lawrence:
No, for the reason I mentioned -- Auri-El gets all the bird stuff with the Altmer.

Atharaon:
Ah. It was mainly the similarities about journeying, the whole "Phynaster guide our sails" quote in the Sailor's Guide to Sea Elves and so on. Oh, the Direnni bird names too. Peregrine, Swan, Raven, Corvus etc.

Lawrence:
You could make an excellent case based on those factoids. Go for it.

Atharaon:
Thank you! I believe we'll have at least two voices arguing for and against it. We don't want to pigeonhole either, merely open up the field for ideas.

In regards to Trinimac, was there any discussion about his role at all? I admit this one causes no end of problems for us since people argue he's linked to Arkay, or Zenithar, or even three different deities. Did the team ever have a preference of whether he was a singular deity or a tripartite one?

Lawrence:
We pretty much felt we'd dealt with him as much as we were going to in Orsinium.

Atharaon:
Of course. Finally, in dealing with Aldmeri history, was there any discussion of whether the Aldmer actually landed on Summerset in the middle Merethic or if they were there all along? If we go with MK's idea that Aldmeris is Tamriel, we're not sure if we should present anachronistic Aldmer ruins in Summerset or even in High Rock, around Adamantia.

Lawrence:
Our working theory was that Aldmeris was not continental Tamriel, but there was no reason to be specific and every reason to leave it vague, so that's not addressed by any in-game sources.

Atharaon:
But to be clear, it wasn't the whole "smoke and fire" themed realm set in the South, was it? The place expressed in The 36 Lessons, Ysmir the Forefather and the new Khajiiti religious lore? You know, the "opposite of Atmora" idea? Or am I wrong and it is vaguely in that direction?

Lawrence:
No, we just ducked the whole mythic origin thing and left it to Bethesda.

Atharaon:
That's what I was hoping for. We can have a lot of fun arguing over this in the Primer.

You were still going with the idea that the Direnni left very early in Aldmeri history though, right? And I doubt you ever settled on if, or when, the Falmer and Dwemer left Summerset?

Lawrence:
No, didn't touch the latter.

Atharaon:
Thanks. Sorry about the additional interview questions here! You're worth your weight in gold. Would you like me to quote you as Phrastus in the Primer, or not include you so directly? Also, would you mind if I pester you in future once in a while if we hit a stumbling block? If nothing else, it's an excuse to say hello and pretend I have friends in high places, haha.

Lawrence:
It's okay to say it was me speaking as Phrastus. And you can always send me questions, just, as you know, I might not have time to reply.

Atharaon:
Thanks! You've answered the lion's share anyway. I promise to try and pester another writer if I can find any open to the same sort of unofficial questions.

Oh, an important question I forgot to ask: based on Phrastus' responses, does he believe the Aldmer became Altmer before the exodus of the Direnni, Ayleids, Velothi and so on? Our working theory was that the name stemmed from the building of the Crystal and White Gold Towers plus subsequent culture shift, so we're just wondering what Phrastus used as a turning point.

Lawrence:
I think Phrastus would tell you that you'd better ask a Sapiarch that question, and expect different answers depending on who you ask.

Atharaon:
I love that response, haha.

Lawrence:
Aldmer/Altmer. It's a really fuzzy distinction if you go way back.

Atharaon:
Yes, that's where we had the problems defining the Direnni, since they appear to have left before the distinction was made.

Lawrence:
No, they left after. The Direnni are Altmer.

Atharaon:
Ah! We were using the timeline of Aicantar of Shimmerene and the Third Pocket Guide, wherein they rediscover Ada-Mantia before the Aldmer built Crystal-Like-Law. We were also toying with the idea that House Ravenwatch might be a similarly old Elven house but without the prominence of the Direnni.

Just to clarify what I mean:

Before the Ages of Man
"The Adamantine Tower was rediscovered and captured by the Direnni, a prominent and powerful Aldmeri clan. The Crystal Tower was built on Summerset Isle and, later, White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil. During the Middle Merethic Era, Aldmeri explorers mapped the coasts of Vvardenfel [sic], building the First Era High Elven wizard towers at Ald Redaynia, Bal Fell, Tel Aruhn, and Tel Mora in Morrowind."

Lawrence:
All those events are sufficiently far in the past that trying to impose an exact before-and-after timeline on them is probably not feasible.

That doesn't mean you can't take a stab at it! That's the nature of TES fandom.

But it's also in the nature of TES that you can never ... quite ... be... sure.

Atharaon:
One other question we'd had was regarding the Heart of Transparent Law. We played around with the idea that the mythic symbolism of two Hearts on opposite ends of the continent, one associated with Order and one with... Lorkhan? Was there any discussion about the idea it might be the Divine Spark of, say, Trinimac or some other deity?

Lawrence:
No. It was meant to clearly echo the Heart of Lorkhan, but nothing specific beyond that.
But what we meant is no more important than what you make of it.

Atharaon:
Nice! Very kind of you to confirm the echoes. On Dibella, we're assuming the Altmer don't do Dibella or anything really like her beyond Mara and possibly Y'ffre. Would that be correct?

Lawrence:
Yes, but you can assume that the spheres represented by Dibella are nonetheless represented in Altmer society in other ways, clubs, social movements, et al.

Atharaon:
A question regarding Aicantar of Shimmerene: He wrote Before the Ages of Man, but since ESO, he has been the Sapiarch of Indoctrination. He's our only source for certain information. So is Aicantar's work irredeemable, or does he take due consideration with his history and save his propaganda for war?

Lawrence:
Sorry, pal, I am absolutely not going to give out levels of reliability on what NPCs have to say! You have to assume that every character has their own agenda based on personality and cultural background.

Atharaon:
Lawrence, can I just check with you if you are also the writer behind Telenger the Artificer?

Lawrence:
I was the original inventor of Telenger the Artificer, but other writers added to him and he became one of the team's stock characters.

Atharaon:
Another two questions, perhaps more interesting? [These questions were asked on behalf of a modding team, Alinor: The Eternal Paradise.]

1. Alchemy (the character who transitions when she joins the House of Reveries) - is this a case of presenting herself as female without changing anatomy or an actual magical transition to become fully female? I personally favour the latter but it seems the former view prevails?

2. How does the Helm of Rilis work (Sorondil was a bastard so couldn't wear the helm)? Does pureblood mean that the wearer’s parents had to have been married? Does it mean the blood had to come from a certain member of the family?

Lawrence:
The most important thing I want to say is that you and your design group don’t need the endorsement or validation from a loremaster, current or emeritus, to add to the lore of the Elder Scrolls. As long as you do your homework (and you do), and follow the rule of subjectivity, anything you decide to articulate is legitimate and within the Elder Scrolls approach to mythohistory, which embraces contributions from all different points of view. Canon is a figment; in the Elder Scrolls, if it seems right, it is right.

As to your recent queries:

Alchemy of the House of Reveries: her exact background and transition are ambiguous (deliberately so, as always) so players can draw their own conclusions.

The Helm of Rilis, to those of Clan Rilis, seems to be a mystical relic that can be used to confirm or disavow the legitimacy of those who attempt to wear it; to those outside the kin, it looks more like a self-inflicted family curse that those of the Rilis bloodline just can’t shake.

Atharaon:
An easy question for once! What is the difference between Aldmeri and Aldmeric? Is our team project an illustrated primer/guide of Aldmeri Religion or Aldmeric Religion?

Lawrence:
Aldmeri describes culture and society, Aldmeric refers to language. It's like the difference between Elven and Elvish.

Atharaon:
Sorry to interrupt your day, just a quick request regarding Phrastus' Exegesis of Merid-Nunda: was there ever a full list of the Nine Coruscations or was Xero-Lyg invented without background at the time of writing for the purpose of suggesting more were named without naming them? And in terms of the Ayleidoon four elements, does Light correspond to the Altmeri Fire or Aether?

Lawrence:
1. Suggestion. 2. Fire.

Atharaon:
Can we confirm Lady Cinnabar is referencing the Direnni when she speaks of the mortal mages discovering Balfiera in "Subtropical Cyrodiil"?

Relevant line so you don't have to look it up:

"At one of these mystical joint-points the Aedra erected a great structure, the Adamantine Tower, where they held a conclave to decide the fate of Lorkhan and the Mundus. In later times mortal mages discovered the Tower, and deduced its reality-affirming properties. The Merethic Elves then imitated it, erecting the White-Gold and Crystal Towers at other joint-points."

And can we finally agree the "Dawn Era Ayleids" of Enduum were actually victims of ESO's early error of conflating the Aldmer with the Ayleids, and so it's actually an Aldmeri ruin? Would be a nice cap to our old chats. After this, Tamriel will be off limits!

Lawrence:
Yes on the former, No on the latter; the Ayleid Diaspora sent several clans northwest into what would later become High Rock.

Atharaon:
In the Dawn Era?

Lawrence:
"Dawn Era" is the error.

Atharaon:
So the actual timeline, would it be early First Era?

Lawrence:
Right.

Atharaon:
So, assuming it was built circa 243 plus as an Ayleid Diaspora site, it was then co-opted by the Direnni c. 355 to 500ish, and that's generally the case with the Ayleidoon sites across later High Rock?

And I assume any previous Aldmer or Altmer sites are now ruined completely or lost?

Lawrence:
Some co-opted, some left strictly alone for reasons later forgotten.

Atharaon:
Right, that actually solves that for us.

And none of the Ayleidoon sites in the game are from Merethic Aldmer/Altmer times or pre-Hegemony Direnni, right?

Lawrence:
IIRC.

Atharaon:
If you're interested, we hit a snag with Topal the Pilot taking orders from Crystal Tower, but the Direnni having beat him to Iliac Bay to find Balfiera, then having magisters there, but not properly colonising it till the First Era. We solved it (sorta) by suggesting the Direnni, following that whole Phynaster "destiny" plot you guys considered including, reached Balfiera not via normal sailing but by magically sailing and reaching it like that, so technically they don't chart the Bay. Would that sound reasonable or was it meant to be that Direnni Cygnus just sailed there before Topal?

Lawrence:
Sorry, Topal is a Franchise Mystery and not to be demystified!

Atharaon:
Hahaha, good answer! We also said the Direnni colonists stuck to the mainland of High Rock for the Merethic Era with only priests and magisters on Balfiera until they properly fortified and settled it during the Hegemony in advance of an Alessian invasion. Is that one OK then?

Lawrence:
I can't think of any reason to contradict it.

Atharaon:
Trying to square the circle of roughly 2000 years of Direnni study but no claim till the First Era. I assume there was no plan to look into Merethic High Rock Direnni in any detail, but it’s still the case they left before the Towers were built? With all that confirmed, I am happy to finally free you from your jail cell!

Lawrence:
Choke, gasp, AT LAST!

Atharaon:
Thanks so much for all your help, you've been grand and you're gonna get a special thanks haha.

I do hope you'll read the finished product or at least look at the pretty pictures.

You might notice familiar imagery - the bust that appears above the Aldmer doors and on the ceramic vases in Alinor (guy with a feather or leaf crown?) we ended up using as a basis for Phynaster. Assuming he wasn't Y'ffre!

Lawrence:
He wasn't.

Atharaon:
Just generic, I guess?

Lawrence:
Easier to say who a statue doesn't represent than who it does.

Atharaon:
Hi Lawrence, I'm sorry to bother you but I was wondering if you happened to know who wrote the text "Tower of Adamant"?

Lawrence:
Me.

Atharaon:
Ah... wasn't expecting that. We were wondering because I'm drawing up concepts for the Adamantine Tower and this one bit seemed to go against what we'd spoken of previously:

The Direnni High Elves have ruled Balfiera since the beginning of the First Era. In common parlance the tower bears their name, though they can claim only the construction of the more recent keep that clusters around the tower's base. (Who is responsible for delving the catacombs beneath the keep is a matter of debate with no definitive consensus.)

Does this mean the Direnni didn't occupy the island until the First Era despite discovering it in the Middle Merethic, or that they didn't build around it until the First Era, or that someone else was there before them? It would help me to know what architectural style to use.

Lawrence:
It means the author, a Nord visitor, got only partial information.

Atharaon:
So do you think it's likely that the Nord has perhaps misheard then about Direnni only arriving in the First Era? Thanks.

Therefore, is it reasonable to suggest that in order of "layers" of architecture, we have the Aedric core, followed by Aldmeri architecture (I'm assuming that's why it looks like WGT in ESO), followed by First Era Altmer architecture?

And the catacombs, were they a reference to the general weirdness of Ada-Mantia and the spread of divine power, or a suggestion that other races may have once inhabited the island? I'm thinking if the former, it might be fun to tie them into the mystic joint lines connecting reality.

Lawrence:
The Nord doesn't have a clear grasp of the difference between First Era and before, and he's completely speculating about what's beneath the tower. "Once" is a better indicator.

Atharaon:
You wrote “Once” too, right? Can I just check if Direnni Cygnus was an actual person or the name of a ship?

Lawrence:
Cygnus Direnni was a person.

But sometimes ships are named after people.

Atharaon:
Hahaha, now I don't know what to think, which is great. Could she be regarded as the dynastic founder then or does that lie with Asliel or another yet unknown mer?

Lawrence:
Wow, I don't remember ever wondering who was the ur-Direnni. I got nothing.

Atharaon:
In the case of the mer who "took her name" upon colonising High Rock, presumably not all were of Clan Direnni?

Lawrence:
High Rock definitely had non-Direnni settlers.

Atharaon:
My final question for you, because you've been more than helpful: When the Nedes arrived in High Rock, was it an immediate clash of cultures with the elven inhabitants, or do you envisage more of a diverse reaction dependent on elven city-state/clan?

Lawrence:
I see it as a gradual event, with a variety of reactions and outcomes.

Atharaon:
So from roughly ME 1000 - 800 onwards, as suggested in Frontier, Conquest and Accomodation?

Lawrence:
Yep.

Atharaon:
Would you see them coming over sea to Wrothgar from Atmora, or via land over the mountains from elsewhere in Tamriel i.e. a Tamrielic genesis?

Lawrence:
I think the Nedes are broadly considered to have come to Tamriel from elsewhere.