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Infernal Takeaways

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cpt.Od's picture
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B wrote:
When Umbriel reaches the White-Gold Tower, I can only imagine what will happen when it begins to feed on creatia.
Vivec repo'ed some symbols from the Infernal City, while we were too busy looking. I know where I want to take the symbolism. Umbra is a sword headed for a tower. 1 and 7 are pertinent numbers, might 17 be too? Maybe it's without irony that his Book of Hours is so initially invested in Mnemolic sorceries and Psijics, who rever this passage Mnemoli. I don't know, just a thought. She's always been a curiosity.

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OOC crypto-analysis like he should have been doing.
I say it how it how I scoop it as it falls out. The way I figure, nobody was saying anything interesting (Akatosh came to rescue, Martin made the right choice, bleh). I can sum it up. The covenant's gone. The statue is rock. Akatosh didn't save you, he's a trap, which is a thing best avoided. Akatosh is not safe to be around.

Sounds snide. I guess it is. Let me try again, please. Akatosh is mentally unstable. He is two gods in one. Covenants are inadvisable. Who are you really making covenant with, anyway? You're accepting the promise of a driveling maniac. Lorkhan's trying to disassociate from anything Akatosh, and he's been rather destructive about it. Time isn't a force to ally yourself with, when you see it folding ontop of you.

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Lady N wrote:

Does the White-Gold still have that stuff though? I'm really quite confused as to how the dragon statue managed to replace the stone (or the whole tower itself?). It kinda seemed to me that the Dragon was a new covenant, keeping the Daedra at bay and what not, but I don't think it covered the rest of the Tower's functions. Of course, I'm likely wrong. Either way, a model of mundus touching down on another model of mundus could be interesting. 

If you look at Oblivion (the game), I'm not sure.  I'm still a little confused as to what exactly happened there.  According to the novel, "Everyone agrees [the White-Gold Tower] has power, but no one knows exactly what kind" (p.123).  Vuhon wants the Empire to lie down and allow him access to the Tower.  He believes "it will all be over" once he reaches it.  My guess is that Umbriel will be able to exist completely in the Mundus, instead of being trapped in a bubble of Oblivion.

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I forsee something more abit more apocalyptic that Vuhon is about to attempt* -creating another sub-gradient, landing another realm at the heart of Tamriel, centre of the World (accepting the idea of Cyrodilic centralism ofcourse, as I'm sure Alinor would draw maps a touch differntly), and if Vuhon is Lord of the Infernal Realm, then...

*well obviously someone's going to challenge him.

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Luagar wrote:

Lady N wrote:
A trend I've noticed recently is the muddying of the concept of "Daedra." Malacath has already been bending it, and SI revealed the Jyggy/Sheggy dichotomy and let the CoC mantle one/both/neither of them. And now IFC comes along and has Umbra cut of a piece of Vile. With Umbriel at his disposal, could Umbra come to replace Vile (or rather the concept he embodies)? 

I made a similar note over at t0, though not including the bit about Umbra and Vile. Malacath, Meridia, Sheo and Dagon (and perhaps Vile) all blur the lines - I'd be interested to learn if this was true of all the Princes, such as if none of the Princes actually viewed the others as true Daedra.

I recall none of the Princes accepting Malacath as a Daedric Prince at least, but all of them on all of them? It would be interesting to have them all in the same room if that were the case. Some of the other ones do blur the line but still fit it to my satisfaction at least (Jyggalag was there before the creation, did not take part in it, but became Sheogorath when free will overrode his calculations, for example).

I do think, as well, that since we get the explanations of lore from characters the novel works better. For example Sul, who only ever loved Ilzheven, simply said Vivec "left, or was destroyed" because while he read the Sermons (I assume, along with the other people involved with him and Vuhon) leaves us to be able to speculate on the "loss of love" thing, as well as how Vivec disappeared, like in the Trial or stabbed by the Nerevarine in a fit of bloody vengeance.

 

EDIT P.S. And the annotations in the first Pocket Guide made me go "hmmm!" When I saw the word "Thalmor" repeated here and there. Maybe the Medes are now against more than they bargained for in the Thalmor regime. 

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TOYB wrote:
*well obviously someone's going to challenge him.

How the hell do you try and defeat a floating chunk of Oblivion that turns anyone near it into a zombie? I can't think of anything remotely plausible, and I hope that neither can anyone within the story. Pulling out a "hey, we simply have to lead it into one of these dracoaurubic lines and then blast it with a concentrated stream of abstruration, and it should be weak enough for us to pummel it with fireballs and bring it down" would feel like something of a deus ex machina. I'm hoping the thing does maximum damage, yay for events that actually change things. 

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Lady N wrote:
TOYB wrote:
*well obviously someone's going to challenge him.
How the hell do you try and defeat a floating chunk of Oblivion that turns anyone near it into a zombie? 

Hmm, how about an even bigger floating chunk of Oblivion that turns anyone near it into even stronger zombies! Yea, that's definitely the way to go...

 

Seriously though, some probable options include: killing Vohun and putting Umbra back in his sword (who iirc is the one powering this beast) and then putting it on auto-pilot into the realm of somebody nobody likes, like Dagon or Sheo. Of course, if my fortune-telling is working properly today I'm going to say that it will reach White-Gold, some cool mythic stuff while happen that will make it no longer part of Oblivion and likely either rewrite the countryside or allow it land somewhere and become its own realm - of course this scenario also involves something really bad happening to Vohun because that's just the way stories go.

From what I can tell, they just want to use White-Gold to pop the bubble of Oblivion around them so that they'll be free, at which point they can stop eating souls and turn people into zombies and can set down somewhere semi-peacelike.

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I'm thinking it disconnects from Oblivion and stops working as soon as it comes in contact with the White-Gold, causing it to land right on top of the Imperial City. Somehow rewires something metaphysical, probably, but certainly makes really cool cliffs. People rebuild, and the new IC is built into and onto Umbriel. Looks bitchin' 

Luagar's picture
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Of course the question remains, what do you do with the remains of a few hundred-thousand zombified Argonian corpses afterward? Cuz ya' know somebody has to dispose of all those bodies...

Lady N's picture
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Practice the long forgotten art of flesh sculpture? Unless they don't actually die when Umbriel touches down, in which case its up to adventurers to clean up the mess. 

Luagar's picture
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If something doesn't happen to the zombies after Umbriel does its thing then Cyrodiil's gonna be a quiet place for the next few hundred years... well, not 'quiet',  the groaning of zombie hordes will be there but zombies don't groan very loudly.

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 If it isn't dealt with in-story then I'll write a comedy fan-fiction about the Street Cleaners of the Imperial City. 

As for that, though, I think it's one of the things that we really can't know yet because we haven't seen the second half. So I'll wait before giving my opinion just in case I'm wildly off-base.

The new reforme...

Simple everyone in the city will Hibernate where they stand for three days.

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 Anyone else getting a sense that the Mede empire is like the Holy Roman Empire to the Septim's Rome? It doesn't quite ring of Byzantium since it didn't start as a part of the bigger one, but was, like the HRE, simply the toughest commander picking up some pieces and claiming legitimacy. That makes me think that if Tamriel is re-unified at all, it likely won't be anytime soon.

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I have a feeling Emperor Titus Mede will be killed, and Prince Attrebus will end up becoming emperor.

Lady N's picture
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Jeroic wrote:

 Anyone else getting a sense that the Mede empire is like the Holy Roman Empire to the Septim's Rome? It doesn't quite ring of Byzantium since it didn't start as a part of the bigger one, but was, like the HRE, simply the toughest commander picking up some pieces and claiming legitimacy. That makes me think that if Tamriel is re-unified at all, it likely won't be anytime soon.

To the Septims maybe, but they were hardly the first to establish an empire in the region. Cuhlecain and Tiber did the same thing, essentially. I too think that reunification won't happen soon (though in 200 years its pretty likely, if only to get back to the status quo). 

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Luagar wrote:

Seriously though, some probable options include: killing Vohun and putting Umbra back in his sword (who iirc is the one powering this beast) and then putting it on auto-pilot into the realm of somebody nobody likes, like Dagon or Sheo. 

Putting money on it now, Glim, Annaig and Sul are blowing up the Enginarium. Or whatever it was called that kept it floating. Presumably before it hits White-Gold but we'll see.

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I did like that the Dunmer was at least called Sul. It smacks of meaningfulness.

 

Oh, and also, I laughed at the scene where the one-handed orc, upon loosing his remaining hand, is described as 'holding his bloody stump'. I'm still not really sure if that was an oversight or an attempt at absurd humor.

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Lady N wrote:

Jeroic wrote:

 Anyone else getting a sense that the Mede empire is like the Holy Roman Empire to the Septim's Rome? It doesn't quite ring of Byzantium since it didn't start as a part of the bigger one, but was, like the HRE, simply the toughest commander picking up some pieces and claiming legitimacy. That makes me think that if Tamriel is re-unified at all, it likely won't be anytime soon.

To the Septims maybe, but they were hardly the first to establish an empire in the region. Cuhlecain and Tiber did the same thing, essentially. I too think that reunification won't happen soon (though in 200 years its pretty likely, if only to get back to the status quo). 

Well, there are no 1:1 comparisons, that's just the vibe I'm getting in the book itself. Of curse, it also opens the door to new architecture and cultural mores by the supposed 200-year date.

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I just remembered how Dunmerdude thought they made out Argonians to be "the best thing since sliced bread" and then how, using the same logic, he's entirely wrong because all the Argonians are zombies now. That's karma, scaly bitches.

It would also be interesting to see how the stuff from the book affects the game. We've all but eradicated two of ten races in the game now (Awesome). Going to love seeing how they retcon it, if at all. I can only imagine they did it with good reason and there's something up the sleeve for it with TES V's plot. If Umbriel does touch down somewheres, will we see it in the next game? Part of a quest maybe? If not, I'm sure someone's going to mod it in. That is, if the modding community can stop making anime hair and sexy armor mods for like five minutes.

 

 

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The cynical part of me believes there are people at Zenimax who would give two big thumbs up to dropping rocks on or zombifying any cultures that are weird, mystifying, non-human (or non-pointy-eared human), or generally not corresponding to anything seen in a LotR movie.  Then the marketing department can get to work on designing the next title without constantly running afoul of a continuity only fans (a perjorative to media executives) would bother to keep track of.  Not Keyes' fault, though.  What happens in the book is generally prefigured.

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It would be neat to see how the events in "The Infernal City" ties into TES:5. Surely we will probably hear about it in rumors and other dialog, and a quest that ties in isn't a bad idea either.

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Hello everyone. This is my first post here. I'll admit I'm not the biggest TES lore buff around, but I do find what I do know about TES lore to be fascinating. I'll also admit that I have not read The Infernal City, though I've read plenty about it online. I have a thought concerning the "eradication" of the Dunmer:

From what I understand, they weren't really "eradicated", they just had their homeland Morrowind blown up. I would think that there would be enough Dunmer in the other provinces at the time of the catastrophe that they could begin to resettle Morrowind after a few decades.

That would be perfect for TES 5. I can think of a crapload of quests for such a setting: A scholar from the reconstructed Mournhold wants the player's help in retrieving historically important documents from a collapsing library. A small group of mages managed to survive the obliteration of Vivec city by erecting large magical force fields, and then started an underwater city.

Although, they might have reservations about going back to an area they already made a game out of.

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Herakles wrote:

Hello everyone. This is my first post here. I'll admit I'm not the biggest TES lore buff around, but I do find what I do know about TES lore to be fascinating. I'll also admit that I have not read The Infernal City, though I've read plenty about it online. I have a thought concerning the "eradication" of the Dunmer:

From what I understand, they weren't really "eradicated", they just had their homeland Morrowind blown up. I would think that there would be enough Dunmer in the other provinces at the time of the catastrophe that they could begin to resettle Morrowind after a few decades.

That would be perfect for TES 5. I can think of a crapload of quests for such a setting: A scholar from the reconstructed Mournhold wants the player's help in retrieving historically important documents from a collapsing library. A small group of mages managed to survive the obliteration of Vivec city by erecting large magical force fields, and then started an underwater city.

Although, they might have reservations about going back to an area they already made a game out of.

I'm not sure i like that idea...especially because of everything we've already done in TES 3. It's just pointless to play that now knowing that it'll all be gone in a few years, the great houses, the cities even the Gods are all gone from Morrowind.

I'd personally prefer to play TES 5 somewhere else in Tamriel. Morrowind is ruined. Besides the Dunmer in the other provinces aren't like the Dunmer in Morrowind, they would be completly different and it would all seem a bit...changed. But then again, i'm the kind of person who can't swallow change

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Indeed, I don't think blowing up Morrowind in the first place was a very good idea at all. Like you said, it makes replaying TES 3 feel kind of meaningless, knowing that it's all going to be blasted away in a few years. However, I do think I would feel better if at the very least it would all be rebuilt.

This idea is probably too crazy to be plausible, but:

In TES 4, there were random rumors that the Nerevarine went to Akavir. Maybe Azura came to the Nerevarine in another dream and told him about the coming crises. He/she gathered a bunch of followers and sailed to Akavir, thus allowing a lot of the Morrowind-native Dunmer to survive. Eventually, they were able to return to Morrowind and resettle it. Hell, maybe you could even play as the Nerevarine again!

Probably a better idea than that is for TES 5 to take place in Akavir, where the Dunmer that were led there by the Nerevarine have settled down. I think it would be awesome to see Dunmer culture blending with Akaviri culture.

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Herakles wrote:

Indeed, I don't think blowing up Morrowind in the first place was a very good idea at all. Like you said, it makes replaying TES 3 feel kind of meaningless, knowing that it's all going to be blasted away in a few years.

Does the fact that you are going to die some day make your whole life pointless?

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Nazz wrote:

Herakles wrote:

Indeed, I don't think blowing up Morrowind in the first place was a very good idea at all. Like you said, it makes replaying TES 3 feel kind of meaningless, knowing that it's all going to be blasted away in a few years.

Does the fact that you are going to die some day make your whole life pointless?

Yes. I listen to My Chemical Romance to ease the pain.

It's better to talk about landfall as being the destruction of Dunmer civilisation as it was up to that point. It doesn't represent the extermination of the species. Hell, looking back from a future era it could turn out to be the greatest thing that ever happened to the Dunmer as a people.

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Nazz wrote:

Herakles wrote:

Indeed, I don't think blowing up Morrowind in the first place was a very good idea at all. Like you said, it makes replaying TES 3 feel kind of meaningless, knowing that it's all going to be blasted away in a few years.

Does the fact that you are going to die some day make your whole life pointless?

No, but I'm not a hero trying to make the world a better place. If I was, and I knew that everything would be wiped out in a few years, it would indeed seem pointless.

gro-dahl wrote:

Hell, looking back from a future era it could turn out to be the greatest thing that ever happened to the Dunmer as a people.

Perhaps. But Morrowind culture, the way it was in TES 3, is more interesting in the context of the game. If Dunmer culture in TES 3 didn't have slavery, political corruption, bigotry, and all that, what would be point of being the hero trying to make it better?

The new reforme...

You people are all giving Keyes far too much credit.The man is incapable of having original ideas.

There will be a big confrontation,One of the hero's gets incapacitated,Evil guy bites it,zombie city blows up seconds before landfall,Generic fantasy heroine marries Generic Fantasy former rich-boy-Who-learns-power-of-friendship and everything gos back to normal.

You people then bullshit for days about how it's symbolism for the "entomorph of the tower"or some other pretentious bull.

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If you don't like the book, don't read it. If you don't like our pretentious bullshit, don't read that, either. If you're satisfied with having a limited knowledge of simple surface issues, fine, but there are some of us who like some depth in our works, even if the author did not intend it. Its called literary criticism. 

By the way, your name could not be any more hypocritical. "Reformed" my ass, you're worse now than you ever were before. At least be creative with your trolling, "Keyes sux" and "lol pretentious shit" is getting old. 

 

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The new reformed Dunmerdude. wrote:

You people are all giving Keyes far too much credit.The man is incapable of having original ideas.

There will be a big confrontation,One of the hero's gets incapacitated,Evil guy bites it,zombie city blows up seconds before landfall,Generic fantasy heroine marries Generic Fantasy former rich-boy-Who-learns-power-of-friendship and everything gos back to normal.

You people then bullshit for days about how it's symbolism for the "entomorph of the tower"or some other pretentious bull.

So wait, the fact that he has written several other original works means nothing? And the fact that we're basically tying in gameside TES lore with the novel (like a person should for a series) is pretentious? 

If you think TES is pretentious, why are you even here? And if you have nothing original to say, why don't you just spare us the bandwidth and not clutter threads with your bullshit?