Skip navigation
Library

Imperials or Stormcloak?

386 replies [Last post]
sheogorath's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/25/2011

    Imperal legion or the stormcloaks?

Who do you want to help and why should you?

  ( I dont mind oppinions or anything of the sort.       Achievements,personal gain, just for fun ext.)

       -note:Preferably your best  arguement.

The Imperials may have tried to kill you in the beging but they've been a key part of the series, but that also can be seen as a reson for change. Perhaps you join the Stormcloak, a group of nords who believe the Empire is crumbling and/or is weak, although it apers they are racist, they have place the Dark Elfs(Dunmer) in a seprate part of the city and Arigonians at the dock. On the otherhand the Imperials are being broken by the Thalmor, and have outlawing worship of Talos has not won the popular vote.(a result of a treaty the sighned to the Thalmor)

These are some of the reasons to join or not to join each faction. 

 

Personally, I would chose the Imperals, for some of the resons already listed above.

Pilaf The Defiler's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/27/2010

I went with the Imperials, and it seems my reasons were justified later on when  we obtain a document that suggest

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Ulfric was a puppet of the Thalmor and his supposed cause was a smoke screen.

Lady N's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010

About that spoiler:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
If you meant the Dossier, I don't think it implies that he was a willing puppet or that he didn't believe in his cause. He was being manipulated behind the scenes by the Thalmor, but he did not support them, and he really did believe in the freedom of Skyrim.

 

I went with the Storkcloaks, cause the empire ain't what it used to be. I ran into a bug, though, and had to console fail the intro quest, so now I can't really join them anymore :(

Pilaf The Defiler's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/27/2010

Spoiler: Highlight to view
I don't believe he was a witting agent for the Thalmor, no, but a puppet nonetheless. Perhaps less so than Tullius. I finished the Imperials' MQ and found Tullius to be a very likeable man by the end. He privately confessed to me once I became his Legate that he did not support the banning ot Talos and he still revered him privately.

 

Is it possible for Tullius to die in the Stormcloaks campaign? Anyone beat it? If there's no way for him to die in the game, that might make him a potential future candidate for Emperor, considering Mede's assassination. I know the Breton council member was jockeying for position of Battlemage or possibly even Emperor but it is possible to kill him as well, and the way the canon in the subsequent games usually goes is that anything that could have happened probably did. I wouldn't mind serving under an Emperor like Tullius. Tamriel has had worse.

Fugu23's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/28/2010

Stormcloaks, reasoning being that the Nords would probably fare better on their own against the Thalmor than the Empire did, with all it's red tape. The empire would have crumbled when TIC falls to the Thalmor anyways, and they would have ended up on their own regardless of whether Tullius or Ulfric was in power.

If that spoiler is true, however, then everyone's well and truly buggered.

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Yeah, there's a good chance Tullius'll die at the end of the Stormcloaks. I'm pretty sure one of the dialogs lets him live, maybe. I didn't get to try it.

 

Pilaf The Defiler's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/27/2010

Speaking of Succession of the Throne:

 

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Was it mentioned anywhere that Mede had any surviving heirs? I would assume a man of his advanced years would have produced grandsons by now. If nothing else, he may have a brother or wife to take the throne.

sheogorath's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/25/2011

 HAHA everything is a spoiler :D

Lady N's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010

Pilaf: I'd asume he does. But I'd have assumed the same about Uriel VII, and look how that turned out.  

Walrus's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2010

I joined the Empire, because

 

1. The exhausted Empire waging a civil war will just deplete it's numbers, the resources of skyrim, and make it's people hate it.

2. The Empire is allowing our glorious Justicar comrades to carry out their noble work.

 

3.

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Kill the Emperor at the end of DB questline anyway. So I eliminate the stormcloaks, and also eliminate the Empire in a way.

 

4. I'll be helping the Thalmor no matter what side I pick.

Pilaf The Defiler's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/27/2010

Walrus

 

Spoiler: Highlight to view
I severely doubt killing Titus will eliminate the Empire at this point. The way the Medes have things set up, they obviously have a much better plan of succession than the Septims did. It's not bound as strongly as ritual and the wishes of the Elder Council. They're a strong House, with simple warrior beginnings, very similar to Talos himself. Also remember all of Talos' direct heirs were killed, and his line continued for hundreds of years. Also, the guy who gave the quest to kill Mede said this would help the Empire, not hurt it.

 

Lady N

 

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Even if he has no living wife or heirs, it probably doesn't matter much. As I said above, it seems like everyone is tired of those hundred plus year periods of having no Emperor. Titus I put up with it for less than a decade. He probably drew up an exhaustive plan for the transferral of power in the event of an assassination. He seemed to have a mind for such a thing. Even if the person is another Thalmor puppet like Thules the Gibbering I doubt the throne will sit empty for long, but I hope it's another Mede, or at least a Vici or a strong military leader.

 

Speaking of "Vici"..how stereotypically Italian is that surname? I realize it's a Latin word, but damn. I love how the Imperials are less stereotypical pagan Rome era Imperials this time and more...well, some of them look and speak more like Spaniards or Potuguese people this time around, and their skin tones are much more "Roman", not the milky whites of previous games. This sets them apart from the Bretons, Nords and the Redguards. (Although there's some Redguards in this game with a more Arab or Persian complexion, as well.)

 

edit: A thought. Nobody ever said for sure Akaviri features were "Asian". What if the "Iberian" features and skin tones of some Imperial characters represent those subtle Tsaesci facial features mentioned in the First PGE?

New Order's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/03/2011

Keeping my Dovahkiin free of the civil war and other politics, going with the observation that he/she plays more of a 'major/key player behind the scenes' role in the MQ; a la the Underking.

 

Rolling an old embittered Imperial mage-type to do the Stormcloaks and working on a concept for a character to do the Imperial side also. Only time will tell which side 'sticks true' in my personal cannon.

Walrus's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2010

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Pilaf, I'd estimate even a small amount of detstabilization is all the Thalmor needs. Titus II has been emperor for a long time, and the imperial system is used to him. New emperor, new upheavals, new opportunities for the thalmor.

 

ON the NPC, it's best to remember TES 101:  Things NPCs say aren't always true and cetainly don't always hold yup in the long term.

 

 

Offline
Joined: 12/01/2011

read the books relating to the great war and youll find that in the end the aldmeri dominion lost all the lands that it had obtained it weakend the empire by splitting it from some of its colonies but in a war of attrition (having more people on your side to die then you kill of your enemies) the empire would win that race in a walk and the aldmeri dominion had both of its main armies destroyed in that war. supply is the main the question and i dont know what all raw materials the thalmor can muster but id say the empire can probably raise more on top of that the taxation base and reqruitment pool of the empire is larger and the aldmeri dominion has a historical mistrust with its new found allies somthing the altmers natural arrogance could end that very easily and the empire has already proved that they are skilled in war and diplomacyand could exploit thier arrogance even further by wit and cunning in short i belive that the under even an average emporer the empire could easily win another war with the aldmeri dominion if it can consolodate its power

New Order's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/03/2011

You'll have to remember though that this isn't the empire of the Septim's (Which was all encompassing of Tamriel); this is the Mede's Empire, built with the hands of men - There's no man-ascended-to-godhood, no Reman(s) of divine origin and certainly no Aless, Empress of Free Men. In a way, this is kind of the first Empire of Men which comes from real, almost humble origins. It's not grand. It's more real in a way.

 

Do we have any source that actually says/states what territories the Mede Empire encompasses? In my head, it's just Cyrodiil, Skyrim (Currently in a state of civil war), Hammerfell (Half of it is lost to the Dominion) and possibly High Rock.

 

Anyway, both sides of The Great War fought to a stand still, hence why the White-Gold Concordat was signed. Both sides were 'out of puff' but the Dominion has seemingly more resources at it's disposal.

 

There's a reason why the Thalmor refer to The Great War as The First War.

Offline
Joined: 05/31/2011

Hammerfell is out. They didn't want to give up their lands in the Concordat, so they Empire had to drop them. They then kicked the Dominion out of their lands.

 

Dunmer seem to have moved back into portions of Morrowind. No idea if it's still part of the Empire, though.

New Order's picture
Offline
Joined: 11/03/2011

There you go; they don't even have Hammerfell and I'd doubt they'd have High Rock either. It's basically just Cyrodiil and Skyrim now (Even that hangs in the balance of the events in-game).

 

Fucking-A Hammerfell though, keeping up the fight.

Offline
Joined: 05/31/2011

High Rock is still Imperial.

RequiemStargazer's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/01/2011

I'll be honest and admit that I chose the Stormcloaks on my first profile simply because I loved Ulfric's voice actor, and Ralof was one of my favorite characters. The only thing that got to me as a Stormcloak was the sacking of Whiterun. Jarl Balgruuf's reaction...gah, I felt so bad. I just really love that guy xD .

My newest character will be an Imperial supporter, however. I'm really curious to see how both Factions' MQs intersect. But if you want to get into politics, I'd rather just take the copout road and study with the Greybeards. (I saved the world, man! What more do you want from me?!)  I'm not very taken with either side for various reasons, but it all comes down to who gets the throne.

Elisif would not, in my opinion, make a good High Queen. Everything seems to imply that she and Torygg were young and newly ascended to the throne, therefore, she's almost as untried as Ulfric. Skyrim is as harsh and rugged as it is beautiful. She doesn't have enough steel in her spine to firmly bring such a land to heel on her own, and even her own Thanes dislike the the authority Tullius has been given. Skyrim needs to be able to rule itself, regardless of whether or not it remains a part of the Empire.

As for Ulfric, I don't like the idea of him being High King, either. It's not just because of the pesky aforementioned spoiler, but also because of his mental state. It is implied that he was seriously tortured and brainwashed while he was in Thalmor custody, enough to the point that he plays right into their hands.*  Not to mention that Galmar has a line of dialogue that basically says: "Many people think that Ulfric wants the throne for his own power. Can they not see how that desire is fueled by tears as well?" <--It's not the exact quote, but that was the gist of it. And I've always gotten the somewhat "emotionally tortured" vibe from the man; he has more enemies in his own mind that he does on the battlefield, if you ask me. Anytime I went to report directly to him during the Stormcloak MQ, if he was in his private quarters, he would be pacing the halls back and forth, even at 2AM.

To wrap my over-analyzing up: If I had a say at the Moot, Balgruuf would get my vote. While he obviously sympathized with the Legion more than the Stormcloaks, he was intent on neutrality until presented with Ulfric's ultimatum. Plus, I really like the guy. He'd make a decent High King.

*

Spoiler: Highlight to view
In fact, the Dossier implies that the so-called Markarth Incident was implemented because Ulfric was taking his orders from the Thalmor. After that, he became uncooperative and cut off all contact with them, yet they still consider him a dormant asset to be used in extreme cases.

Offline
Joined: 09/26/2010

The Thalmor pulled out of Hammerfall for precisely this reason actually, to cause strife throughout the empire.

 

It also shows shocking forsight. Trying to hold hostile cities would be nothing but a continuous drain of manpower too. Taking Hammerfall would be, honestly, much more trouble then it was worth.

Walrus's picture
Offline
Joined: 12/28/2010

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Hammerfell is the greatest threat to either the Empire or to Tamriel while it is a member of the Empire. The Redguards drove the Left-Handed Elves into the sea, they are dangerous and unpredictable, and a long term occupation would have been disasterous. The Aldmeri Dominion did the right thing by pulling out. The redguards, one of core provinced of the Empire with an obvious supply of manpower and morale encouragement is gone, further weakening the Empire's already tenous hold on the Abecean Sea and the Cape of the Blue Divide. The entire west coast of Tamriel, the most important area of water economically and strategically to the Empire is completely under Aldmeri control. Hammerfell's navy, which was obviously a bulwark for the Empire is gone, putting into doubt the Empire's ability to keep any sea around it. The Empire has no access to the Abecean, they have no access south of Tamriel. The only waters they could possible lay claim to are those northwest of Tamriel, but I doubt they could put their sphere any further than a localized area around High Rock.

 

In short, the Empire is completely navally surrounded by the Dominion. Blocked off by land in the south and east, and by the fleets of Dominion in the west and northwest, they could be completely navally dominated in a war, all of their ports blockaded, strangling their supply routes.

 

The loss of Hammerfell is a greater injury than most people give it credit for. Whatever happens on continential Tamriel, they will never set one foot on Alinor, and the Altmer will have the rest of the kalpa to ferry goblins and so forth over to Valenwood and work what magic that they will.

Offline
Joined: 12/02/2011

 I have to agree with you about Ralof and even early Ulfric, the developers appear to have gone through great pains to make you easily enamored with the Stormcloaks. But then make you pay a high price for it later. 

Whereas the early Empire is extremely unlikeable. They play viceral reactions against intellectual ones. As, I think, the Empire is probably in the long run the better bet for the survival of Humanity and eventual reinstatement of pan-Talos worship. 

 

I would like to point out, in regards to the spoiler, that it specically states that a Stormcloak victory is unacceptable. So Tulius is not completly correct when he tells the victorious Ulfic that "this is what they[the Thalmor] want." As for why that exactly is, I'm not sure. The stalemate is a nice way to tie the Empire up, but having it lose a large powerful province to a person who they exert some level of control over seems almost as benefitical. The Thalmor may be afraid that triumphant Stormcloak organization might just really do what they claim they will; Attack the Thalmor (assuming that desire out-weighed Ulfric's  hypoethical interference).

 

Then again..if I were the Thalmor I'd just make sure the Stormcloaks first external war was one against the Empire, specifical Cyrodiil. It wouldn't take much propaganda to convince the Nords they are akin to the first era Nord heroes who helped the defeat the Heartland elves and liberate the enslaved denziens Cyrodiil. Freeing the Imperials from the influence, oversight and abductions of the Thalmor - giving them their religion back. 

It's not really that much of a stretch to make...

 

 

Offline
Joined: 11/25/2010

My character is level 30 and hasn't joined any side yet.

 

His family has always been Empire sided in principle. But he isn't sure about these Mede-emperors. His family has idealized Martin Septim for centuries and by extention Tiber Septim/Talos. The disastrous Great War and it's conclusion giving a lot of power to the Thalmor with very little in return have cemented the families opinion. Although he was born years after the White-Gold Concordat, his family has still brought him up with Nine, not Eight Divines.

 

He has no issue with any other races and that is why he doesn't feel at home with the Stormcloaks, or at least how they 'handle' things in their stronghold of Windhelm. And if that's any indication of their long term plans than he doesn't want anything to do with them. To this Cyrodiilic Nord the Stormcloaks seem to have a similar ideology to the Thalmor but instead of looking down on anything not Thalmor, they look down on anything not Nord.

(Such as how Extremist Nationalists hate every other Nationality (including Extremist Nationalists of other Nationalities) but agree on the principle of 'hating every other Nationality').

 

Which isn't to say he wouldn't help 'a Stormcloak' or 'a Legionair'. But he would do so only on a personal basis. (With bashing the heads of some Thalmor as an added bonus).

 

But if one side is wrong, it doesn't automatically mean the other side is right. It could just mean both sides are wrong.

 

He also considers the threat of the dragons to be of more importance.

Lady N's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010

RequiemStargazer wrote:

I'll be honest and admit that I chose the Stormcloaks on my first profile simply because I loved Ulfric's voice actor

Really? I've not seen him outside of Skyrim, but in Skyrim he seems really monotone and emotionless. I like the voice and the feel of it, but it didn't seem like he was acting. But I didn't interact with him much, maybe he's better elsewhere. 

 

I rolled a new character (pure Altmer mage), going to go with the Empire on him. Is there a way to roleplay a Thalmor sympathizer, though?

Fiore1300's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/24/2011

Lady N wrote:

I rolled a new character (pure Altmer mage), going to go with the Empire on him. Is there a way to roleplay a Thalmor sympathizer, though?

 

There's at least one quest, in Markarth, where you get to help them out. I suppose you could assassinate all those Talos priests too, in Riften, Whiterun, Windhelm, etc.

 

<span>JuliusMagnus</span> wrote:
But if one side is wrong, it doesn't automatically mean the other side is right. It could just mean both sides are wrong.

Do not listen to the lies. The usurpers of the East, or the West.

Offline
Joined: 12/02/2011

 I didn't realize this until..just now but there is a third way to end the civil war. A treaty between the two sides...

 

 

B
B's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/14/2010

YsmirTheUnderking wrote:

 I didn't realize this until..just now but there is a third way to end the civil war. A treaty between the two sides...

Yeah, when I start my next character, I think I'll try that approach instead.

Offline
Joined: 05/31/2011

You can't end the war that way.

 

Spoiler: Highlight to view

The truce during the MQ is temporary.

Lady N's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/26/2010

I logged in to post that ^. Damn post ninjas.

 

That's actually the approach I ended up going with on Chemua, since I hadn't started the war quests. Didn't know you could do it any other way until I read the forums.

Offline
Joined: 08/30/2011

So far whenever I try to do the Civil War quests I tend to go Imperial, even with my Nord characters (I have a tendency to constantly re-start characters trying to settle on a playstyle).  I get why some people would be put off by them trying to execute someone at the start, but I don't really hold it against them.  It's simple guilt by association for getting caught up in that ambush coupled with the fact that Imperial law has been "guilty until proven innocent" ever since Maruhk started shaving himself and claiming visions of the paravania.

 

Galmar Stone-Fist is pretty awesome, though.

the2crow's picture
Offline
Joined: 06/07/2011

Drukakis wrote:

Galmar Stone-Fist is pretty awesome, though.

Galmar drives me crazy. He's everything bad about the Stormcloaks; a savage, racist, ignorant war-mongerer.

He's a good character, but as a person I find him detestable.

Offline
Joined: 12/02/2011

Drukakis wrote:

 I get why some people would be put off by them trying to execute someone at the start, but I don't really hold it against them.  It's simple guilt by association for getting caught up in that ambush coupled with the fact that Imperial law has been "guilty until proven innocent" ever since Maruhk started shaving himself and claiming visions of the paravania.

 

 Well, you also run into Imperial Torturers - which if you speak to them should put a bad taste in your mouth. Also the Empire enforcing the ban on worshipping Talos and ALLOWING THALMOR AGENTS TO KIDNAP PEOPLE - is a bit more than mere guilt by association. Like I said earlier, those kinds of things should create a visceral anti-imperial reaction for most people witnessing/hearing about them. 

 

While I think on an intellectual level, anyone who really thought about it and realized the magnitude of the Dominion's threat would throw their lot in with the Empire. (I for one played Stormcloaks my first play through..and at the end didn't feel too good about it - I'm not sure what the Imperial ending is like though.)