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How extensive do you think Merish ancestry is among the Bretons?

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Joined: 06/21/2012

I created this topic on Reddit and thought I'd bring it over here to widen my responses. 

I got the thought that not all Bretons (maybe even a majority of them) might not actually have any Merish ancestry.

Think about it: if the proto-Breton Nedic tribes were already scattered throughout High Rock by the time the Mer got there, they would have had a sizable population by then.

Now the Mer that settled parts of High Rock (going by my theory) certainly did not outnumber the native Nedes there, so not that many would have been made sex-slaves to be used in the Mers' super race experiments compared to population sizes.

One thing I have to add: some sources mention Bretons having an 'elven' appearance, but how is that possible? Especially so when reading Notes on Racial Phylogeny.

Zhen Xiang's picture
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Joined: 11/03/2014

I was told the Bretons were 'experiments' by the Ayleids mixing Mer and Man, for the extensive it was probably a tad below 50% Mer blood in Bretons as they have an innate magic resistance so they wouldnt want that getting out of hand and turning on their Ayleid creators, i personally think the Bretons are a dying race, because as the generation goes, the Mer blood grows thinner so eventually the bretons will lose their innate ability and become Imperials.

Proweler's picture
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Joined: 06/14/2010

Tauryon wrote:

One thing I have to add: some sources mention Bretons having an 'elven' appearance, but how is that possible? Especially so when reading Notes on Racial Phylogeny.

Elven appearance as in effeminate, slender, delicate, sophisticated, at least when contrasted to prime-nord beefcake. Thats the idea I got from some sources. A rather subtle comment on the Nords supposed lack of intelligence.

Gaius Julius's picture
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I think it is very far off. The bretons probably think of themselves more human then elf. But there is something that puzzles me... if a human/elf pro-create a child together, would that be considered breton?

Cordate's picture
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Joined: 04/15/2015

I believe so.

Boaz3579's picture
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Joined: 03/03/2016

A very interesting topic. I have always been intrigued by the Bretons. I would love to know more about this and what would be considered canon on Bretons

TLDovahkiin's picture
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Joined: 08/18/2015

Gaius Julius wrote:
I think it is very far off. The bretons probably think of themselves more human then elf. But there is something that puzzles me... if a human/elf pro-create a child together, would that be considered breton?

But the Breton are a race that evolved culturally and genetically, and it's not like any man/mer mix will be a Breton. The Breton is a member of a specific race with certain characteristics. Note that in many in-game texts, when a character (for example an Emperor) is a mix of man and mer, they are said to have double ancestry and are never named a Breton.

Lady N's picture
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Joined: 06/26/2010

Gaius Julius wrote:
if a human/elf pro-create a child together, would that be considered breton?

"Breton" is a cultural designation, like German or Russian, rather than a 'racial' designator like "mulatto."  To know what the child would be considered we need to know the identity of their parents and the culture they will be raised in. A child with a Dunmer father and a Nord mother, raised in Cyrodiil, would probably consider himself a Cyrodil, while perhaps paying special mention to their heritage. Same way that the child of a Russian and a German, born and raised in America, would likely consider themselves American first and foremost. 

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
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Joined: 05/10/2012

The northwestern Nedes, the so called Druids of Galen, were subservient to the Direnni clan. As the lowest caste in High Rock society, their elven betters had coital privileges and exercised them frequently. The offspring were Manmer, or Bretons (A new species capable of reproduction) and they would go on to create a new caste in betwixt elf and man. This caste was forbidden to marry other mer, but did selectively breed within themselves and Nedes for elvish qualities. By the end of the First Era the Bretons had succeeded their elven masters in the subjugation of the Nedic peoples of High Rock.

Mulder Update: Alessia and Skyrim close in and control of High Rock's mainland is handed over to Breton stewardship, as the Direnni flee to Balfiera.

At this point the Nedes go the way of the Celts in our own history. The Bretons are the Germanic tribes in this comparison and they just go ape shit all over High Rock to the point of genetic dominance. Though we still see a cultural remnant of the Celtic like druids in the Reachmen.

Full X Files Mode: I believe that the Bretons selectively bred with Nedes who suffered from what we would call Williams Syndrome. A disorder that exhibits elven qualities in the patient, due to "deleted" genetic material. This could be from failed, Direnni eugenics experiments, leaving an imprint in all Nedes from the "First Caste" Era.

So I would say, it is very much still in them (Merish Genetics), regardless of the fact they are categorized as man. Magical affinity and aesthetic features aside, we see through history that the Bretons practiced the same types of eugenic programs as the elves, if diluted and crude in comparison.

 This train of thought is typical of any aristocratic, ruling society, especially in a feudal system of governance. Keep blood lines pure, keep desirable traits dominant, and try to weed out weakness and mitigate the effects of inbreeding. This is a human trait in reality and sees its translation in both man and mer in the Elder Scrolls universe. The benefits of eugenics is not lost on the modern peerage system of High Rock. It's the basis of the Daggerfall mise en scene witnessed in the Third Era.