Skip navigation
Library

Fear and Loathing On the Campaign Trail 2016

13 replies [Last post]
Od
Od's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010

I haven't read Hunter's '76, but every cycle's beaten the last one. I want to know what yall think of our fine statesmen. What's gov for? Who's closer to the shape of your government? What experiences or philosophies do you draw from? 5000 years from now, will red be called republican and blue be democrat? Will the Green Party ever have representation among the other Roygbiv Spectra? Say as much as you're comfortable sharing - we've all made someone's watchlist, so no fear. 

Cordate's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/15/2015

Sheogorath for president!

Od
Od's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010

Yes, New Sheoth is a real place.

What the Republicans don't understand is, when they appeal to nostalgia like how wonderful the Constitution was, and each one believes he's best qualified - why, they sound like Nationalists! It's the same Constitution which our "Founders" drafted and ratified, in a frenzied panic, to centralize power in a republic. The irony in  Benjamin Franklin's apocryphal joke, "A Republic, if you can keep it" is lost on Americans.  Republics never last - "we" don't keep republics, the imperial estate does.

I thought I should go first.

Cordate's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/15/2015

Hence why Sheogorath would make an excellent candidate! Through madness it was written, and so through madness it can be maintained! However, everyone tries making sense of the senseless. Benjamin knew this. Sanity destroyed republics. So was the fate of the Galactic Republic.

Od
Od's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010

Everybody's Sheogorath! Cheese - for everyone!

Cordate's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/15/2015

Wait. Scratch that. Can't be much of a party if you don't like cheese

Fiore1300's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/24/2011

You really wanna know? Well, here goes nothing.

We are not "created equal." We are not "endowed by our Creator with certain, unalienable rights." There never was a "social contract." These are outdated concepts that have no basis in reality as we understand it today. They also make up the spiritual foundations of our democratic institutions. It is an issue that needs addressed if we are to move our democracy forward into this new millennium.

The electoral process has failed the people who it is supposed to represent by relying on long outdated mechanics which serve to maintain existing power structures rather than truly represent and personify the will of the people. There are better systems we could be using. 

Let's be honest: a lot of the big problems we face today could be more easily solved by a single world government. We need to begin to work towards that. We have come about as far as we can with the national model. Technology is at the point where governing the world isn't an impossible task anymore. Maybe we can start by giving everyone a voice and a vote in the realm of international diplomacy?

None of the presidential candidates are really talking about the big issues I find to be most important (democratic reform, decreased national power) and haven't given much lip service to the smaller stuff (continued space exploration, raising taxes to rebuild the nation's infrastructure, dismantling the surveillance state, giving full representation to the territories, etc). I distrust the Democratic Party and just harbor outright disdain for the GOP's policies. I sympathize with Obama's ideals but I think he's a poor leader. Never voted for either party in a presidential election because fuck the two-party system. I vote 3rd party in protest, usually Greene but just because they're there really, and they care about the planet and I'm cool with that. And because most of the other 3rd parties are crazy rightists or clearly-living-in-some-other-reality-yet-sympathetically-idealistic Libertarians.

Edit: Oh, and I want to add that I do think being a politician is a noble endeavor. Its not something you hear of a lot these days. But it needs to be said more often.

Od
Od's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010

There's the career politician and the citizen-politician: to which are you referring as noble? Central power is fragile, unimaginative, and always betrays the revolution.

Well, yes, they are noble. Does humanity progress? Is social progress real outside the historicist's review mirror?  Which way is empirically, actually probably, backwards or forward? Central, mythical "world" power isn't robust. An elite can't respond to tangible problems, with anything but ethereal programs and sacrificial scapegoats.

If an un-religion acquires the synodic structure and terminology, and if it finds a "devil" to win against - in your case "God" - it's become a religion.

Fiore1300's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/24/2011

Donald Trump wrote:

There's the career politician and the citizen-politician: to which are you referring as noble?

I can appreciate the distinction, but I think its ultimately a futile one. A citizen-politician, that is, being the ideal public servant: someone who perceives a duty to represent those among him for several years of his life. Like someone who joins spends four years in the military, or someone who goes for a year in the Peace Corps. But ultimately I think its an ideal and nothing more. Even with laws that would protect a person's position while they're serving (aka political leave) and laws that prevent one from serving so many years in public office won't magically create a citizen political corps. I suppose it could help, though concerning the latter suggestion I would be loathe to deny anyone who loves being a politician a chance to do it for a living. And you can't require people to hold elective office either, which goes against the grain of democracy.

Quote:
Does humanity progress? Is social progress real outside the historicist's review mirror?  Which way is empirically, actually probably, backwards or forward?

I might be persuaded to identify as a progressive, but I don't believe in progress as a real phenomena. Its just an eidolon of hindsight, if you will, and a reflection of (often) transient values. As sick with Jahiliyyah as I am, just ask Ayman al-Zawahiri what he thinks of the steady march of western "progress."

Quote:
Central, mythical "world" power isn't robust. An elite can't respond to tangible problems, with anything but ethereal programs and sacrificial scapegoats.

Oh, I don't expect a world government to solve all of our affairs, but issues that today seem unsolvable (such as the Syrian Civil War) could have been dealt with swiftly by a government with the power and - more importantly - the legitimacy to intervene. The E.U. is learning right now what the thirteen colonies learned over two centuries ago: that without a federal entity of real power, unity will remain frail and at the precipice of chaos. The difference between the U.N. and a true world government are the powers nations choose to relinquish to them.

I would expect government at the level of nations to continue to exist in some form. There remains plenty of regional subtleties where the blunt instrument of world governance would do more harm than good. But there would be things a world government would be good at that no singular or collective of independent nations could match.

Quote:
If an un-religion acquires the synodic structure and terminology, and if it finds a "devil" to win against - in your case "God" - it's become a religion.

Are you speaking to the idea of atheism as a religion? If you are: as an atheist I would say I have nothing against the idea of God, since I simply do not believe. As a anti-theist, however, I really do have an agenda against the idea of God and religion, so perhaps what you say is true. Either way, I don't care how the labels fall. I'm fascinated by religion and the idea of God or gods none-the-less. Indeed, the religious lore of TES draws me like no other.

It's a funny story actually... Since I became a member of the TES community after Oblivion's release, I've come across many believers in the lore community. When it first happened I was rather shocked. It was as if I thought that dreaming up deities for a fantasy world was incompatible with a failure to recognize world building in our own, real world. How naive was I... haha. I mentioned perspective earlier. Hardly a better example, eh?

If you weren't speaking to that idea, just ignore all this. This is supposed to be a political discussion anyway. Heh.

Cordate's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/15/2015

All of this could easily be avoided if we just place Jyggy or Sheo as supreme overlord of the world

Od
Od's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010

Cordate wrote:
All of this could easily be avoided if we just place Jyggy or Sheo as supreme overlord of the world
Nay, we must shatter our egos to become Sheogorath! Let us not cower beneath a beard, but wear one!

Fiore, we both know what religion essentially means, in the mainstream sphere; and in that narrow context I think we agree that representations and categories are good, for the sake of communicating quickly and accurately. It's only - and this is where my reason embarks into headwaters of faith, and we bid farewell - I don't view religion as a mystical exercise in the search for God or his (meaning paternal, creational wellspring - of course the words are anthropic, as such) attributes. I take religion to mean what it did to ancient mariners: to cover your ass, double bind your rigging. There's only so far we can take the thought of "God" before we start sounding so much alike, that we're not saying nothing different.

Od
Od's picture
Offline
Joined: 07/02/2010

 

Cordate wrote:
All of this could easily be avoided if we just place Jyggy or Sheo as supreme overlord of the world
Nay, we must shatter our egos to become Sheogorath! Let us not cower beneath a beard, but wear one!

Fiore, we both know what religion essentially means, in the mainstream sphere; and in that narrow context I think we agree that representations and categories are good, for the sake of communicating quickly and accurately. It's only - and this is where my reason embarks into headwaters of faith, and we bid farewell - I don't view religion as a mystical exercise in the search for God or his (meaning paternal, creational wellspring - of course the words are anthropic, as such) attributes.

I take religion to mean what it did to ancient mariners: to cover your ass, double bind your rigging. There's only so far we can take the thought of "God" before we start sounding so much alike, that we're not saying nothing different. Yes, the Trinity, theosis/sanctification of saints, sin, mana, eternal generation of the Son, Heaven, Hell, resurrection, etc are my creed, but the importance of God isn't what I think about him, so much as the tradition.

Xarnac The Conqueror's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/10/2012

Need more government, sans all the naive liberal side-effects such an endeavor entails. Like equal rights for scamps.

Cordate's picture
Offline
Joined: 04/15/2015

Then what of the Hungers? Hunger lives matter!