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Discussion on Lichdom

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Joined: 08/20/2010

I don’t know if I’m the first asking about this, maybe I am, maybe not, no matter.
I’m opening this discussion because I intend to make a lichcraft mod for oblivion, and I want to be as lore-friendly as possible.

I’m only aware of Oblivion lore (what is found on books in the game and npc conversation), since I only played TES4, and information regarding liches and lichdom (the process of becoming a lich) is very scarce.

There was a book I read called “The Path of Transcendence” which you might as well know, is the dairy of a necromancer that wanted to become a lich.
Although he never talks about anything specific about the process of becoming a lich, he mentions vaguely the tedious process to construct the sands of resolve.
It seems it would be necessary to:

  • Sacrifice many innocents. For what exactly?
  • Resurrection of his servants to aid him in his tasks. What tasks?
  • And week-long ritual. What sort of ritual?

These are my main questions as to what I need to know to make the Lichdom process as immersive as possible for Oblivion.

But now more questions arise.
What if the steps explained on that book, aren’t the only ones to get to the Lichdom state?
This is the part I need more help.
As far as I know, The Path of Transcendence is the only book related to this topic on Oblivion. However there could be other references in Elder Scrolls previous titles like Morrowind and such, but I don’t have the time to search for every other book in the hopings of finding good information on this topic.
So if anyone of you have knowledge or a strong opinion about this, be sure to reply and share your thoughts.

On Lichdom
Now, I’ll suppose the player already knows how to become a lich, and has already transformed into one.
How should he look like exactly?
Well, we all know that liches are undead, and so looking like a decayed body or a skeleton seems to be more appropriate.
However, there is a specific lich that doesn’t apply to these rules.
I’m talking about Mannimarco. He became a lich thousands of years ago right? Rumored to be the first lich ever. But as you can see in the game, he has no decayed body or skeleton, is just a fancy altmer.
My first thought is that he uses come conceal magic to hide his true form.
Regardless, that’s not my main point, I want to know your opinions about which method should be more gameplay immersive and lore-friendly:

  1. Making him instantly decayed (like the Oblivion liches)
  2. Making this a slow process. So initially he appears human, and as days goes on, he will start to decay and eventually become like Oblivion liches (which are pretty cool)
  3. Or he could just remain the same forever.

I favor the second, but I’ll consider your suggestions as long as they are given a strong reason to support it.

And lastly a final idea of mine.
I know that full liches in Elder Scrolls lore (at least in oblivion) don’t have any Phylactery associated with it, so they can be killed directly. With this in mind, I don’t intend to strictly make a lich depending on an object to die (it would give immortality though).
However I was thinking to add that as an option. Basically when a player is already a lich, you may get the knowledge on how to split your soul and store it into an object, so if you die in battle, you get the chance to revive (but to keep things balanced, the object is destroyed, otherwise you could just keep dying and dying and you would be revived).
What do you think of this to further increase the immersiveness of the mod?

If this discussion can get to a consensus, I might actually write an article on Lichdom. I’m not sure yet how this website works, as I’m new here, but I believe I can contribute to it by writing my own articles, am I right?

Sorry for the enormous post, although I had a few more things I would like to include, I decided not to, the post could get really really long.

Anyway, thanks for reading all this, I hoping you can share some of your thoughts , you never know if they will be useful. ^^

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Joined: 08/20/2010

Wow!! Why do my post get all those weird stuff?

And how can I get that out?

Lady N's picture
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Joined: 06/26/2010

You probably just posted that from somewhere else, in which case its hidden code. To paste text you need to use the "paste as plain text" button (middle clipboard, left hand side of tool bar). You can also edit it by hand, the edit button for the 1st post is one of the tabs at the top (says "edit")

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Joined: 08/20/2010

When I tried to edit, those weird codes didn't appeared, that's why I freaked out, but thanks to your tip, it's all fixed now.

thank you ;)

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Joined: 08/20/2010

this doesn't seem a very interesting topic though...

Lady N's picture
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Joined: 06/26/2010

To me, no, not really. Lichdom seems to be one of those DnD tropes that is carried over in TES without much development because it never plays a part in the story. 

In terms of Mannicarco, check out his Daggerfall depiction. I wouldn't take him as a typical example either way, since he is uber powerful and involved in all sorts of stuff beyond simple lichdom. 

For the sake of modding, I would keep them the same or introduce minimum decay through textures (as with vampires). Switching out the player model for the lich model isn't exactly easy and will remove a lot of customization options (armor, clothing, etc.) from the player. 

Looking at the books in the library, the Lost Boy Cavern notes might be useful. Other than that I haven't found anything lich related that goes beyond a mention of the word "lich"

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Joined: 08/20/2010

I think I found a good way to make the decaying process pretty cool as well as customization-friendly, so people can still add up their own armor and clothing at will without worring.

 

Thanks for the Lost Boy Cavern notes, I did the quest once and actually read all the notes, but eventually forgot about them. Anyway they aren't too useful since it doesn't explain anything specific to lichdom, just a friendship that ended badly.

One thing is sure, to go to lichdom, one have to walk the path of necromancy first, so I'll search on both topics.

 

I've also been searching around the internet for more information about lichdom in general and I could in fact find good ideas. Now, might that be a problem if I try to add some to oblivion? since the Elder Scrolls lore don't have much details regarding this topic, maybe I could add concepts from external sources as well as my own.

Lady N's picture
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Joined: 06/26/2010

I'd say go for it. Modding doesn't have to be restricted to the literal word of cannon. I would stay away from implementing a really generic version of the lich though - think about what liches mean for Arkay, how (and if) they are related to Mannimarco and the Necromancer's moon, etc. In other words, add some TES flavor to the concept. 

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Joined: 08/20/2010

yah I'm getting the picture.

 

I was thinking in adding more books in the mod with information regarding this, now I know how I can put everything together, nicely.

 

Thanks for the help ;)

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Joined: 07/09/2010

Liches are stupid boring in TES because they really belong elsewhere.

Fugu23's picture
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Joined: 06/28/2010

so do a lot of things but the game would be kinda barren if you went through and pruned it for BATW

Also this is NOT the kind of modding project anyone should be complaining about. Seriously.

Nazz's picture
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Joined: 06/30/2010

Did you botch that link? Or do you have a problem with TESNexus in general?

Fugu23's picture
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Joined: 06/28/2010

There's pretty much no reason to go beyond the front page link to anything specific.

HENTAIMANIA2 says it all.