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The Deep Ones from Hackdirt are the Dwemer (Theory)

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Tailin Sero's picture
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This is my theory on what could have happened to the Dwemer. I ask that others put their own theories on other threads as I would like to keep this one solely for my theory and discussion about this theory. Thank you.

I will list certain elements about both the Dwemer and the Deep Ones (Hackdirt) below and later tie them all together.

1) Dwarven Spectres and Arniel Gane

There are ghosts that haunt the ancient halls of Dwemer ruins in Morrowind. These souls once belonged to the ancient Dwemer. This fact disproves the common theory that the Dwemer were wiped from existence and another theory that says that they might have been absorbed into the "skin" of Numidium. Arniel Gane and his "endeavors" are another example of this. Arniel's goal is to recreate the event that caused the Dwemer to disappear. It results with Arniel becoming a ghost himself, but I believe that he somewhat succeeded in his experiment. I believe that what Arniel recreated was a Dwemer secret method used to power their creations. Filled soul gems can be found in dwemer automatons. I believe that these gems hold the souls of the dwemer. Considering that Arniel used a "Warped Soul Gem" (a white warped soul gem), he is able to use Keening to place his soul within the gem. Because the gem is a white gem his soul, along with the Dwemer's, would not go to the Soul Cairn, but would remain in the mortal realm when the gem is used.

2) Kagrenac's Planbook/Journal and The Bible of the Deep Ones

Kagrenac's Planbook and Journal are found during the main questline of Morrowind. Both carry similar text inside, "[The contents of this handwritten journal are in an unfamiliar script in an unknown language. There are many complex diagrams heavily annotated with numbers and strange symbols. The title page, however, is clearly marked in Ald Aldmeris -- 'Kagrenac's Planbook (or Journal)'.]" Because of this text we know that the Nerevarine knows old Aldmeris (Elvish). A very interesting part of this text is the "unfamiliar script". Had the script been Dwemer, the Nerevarine would have recognized it, even if he/she didn't know what it said. Since the planbooks have top secret information about the Heart of Lorkhan (this becomes known if you choose the alternate path for Morrowind's questline), I believe the planbooks would have been written in a script unfamiliar to the Chimer of that time period. Daedric, Aldmeri, and Dwemer are all ruled out as the Chimer would know those languages. I think they were written in Sload. The Dwemer being so knowledgeable probably knew Sload, or at least the script. Now, the Bible of the Deep Ones, once translated, appears to be in a identical dialect as the Sload-ish book N'Gasta! Kvata! Kvakis!.

3) Lorkhan's Heart

Another popular theory about the Dwemer disappearance is that Kagrenac succeeded in his plans and the Dwemer as a whole became gods, or god-like. One of the facts supporting this theory is the Dwemer ability to communicate with each other telepathically. This is due to a magical power know as "the Calling". Some people believe the Calling, connecting the minds of the Dwemer, was the reason they all disappeared at the same time, even the Rouken Clan in Hammerfell. All except Yagrum, who "was in an outer-realm at the time" disappeared. I guess the Calling can't pass through Oblivion.

4) The Deep Ones Cult and The Calling

I believe the cult of the Deep Ones, the Hackdirt Brethren, are being contacted by the Dwemer through "the Calling".

5) Conclusion

Going off of the popular theory that Kagrenac's plans succeeded, the Dwemer would have transcended the mortal form, but what if that was only half of what happened. My theory is that when Kagrenac struck the Heart of Lorkhan with his tools he and the rest of the Dwemer race transcended mortality, but they remained bound to Mundus. Lorkhan's Heart has a very close connection with Mundus. It is often said, one cannot be destroyed while the other remains. Like Shor's Ghost, the Dwemer are bound to remain on Mundus. Since they only partially succeeded in their plans it would make sense for them to soon regret their actions. The Deep Ones in Hackdirt are trying to make contact with the mortals of Tamriel and hope that maybe someone could reverse their mistake, or at the very least warn others not to follow in their foot steps. Hackdirt after all isn't too far from Hammerfell where the Rouken clan disappeared. Also, why would Bethesda choose Oblivion to feature the Deeps Ones? In Morrowind we learn a large amount of dwemer lore, even the title "Deep Elves". Why would, in the next TES Game, would Bethesda put in mysterious spirit-like beings and call then "The Deep Ones"? All of this (and that listed above) seems to coincidental to me. But what are your thoughts on my theory?

Voshu Ornim's picture
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Joined: 01/06/2017

It's an interesting theory, I like it! But I don't find it to bee too terribly probable.

Stygies VIII's picture
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It does make sense. It would be a tale of Dwemer Tonal Architects who took their science one step too far. We cannot be sure whether the Deep Dwarves regret their decision, though. Maybe they discovered marvellous things beyond mortality, or maybe they feel they really, really fucked up this time. If they do use the Calling to try to contact with mortals, then they certainly are not anywhere else than Mundus.

The telepathic Dwemer thing must have been a bit different than normal spells. There is a guy who researched Oblivion, traveled there and whispered to his student while he was on Nirn. The book describing that is "The Doors of Oblivion".

Tailin Sero's picture
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The Lusty Dovahkiin wrote:

There is a guy who researched Oblivion, traveled there and whispered to his student while he was on Nirn. The book describing that is "The Doors of Oblivion".

Apparently, the Psijics have Calling magic as well, or so they claim.

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This actually makes a bit of sense, except for a few issues. There have been very few instances where immortals have actually taken a form (Physical or not) in the mortal realm, making it unlikely so many ghosts would stay on Mundus. There is however, the dwarven automations. These (probably) run on dwarven oil, but dwarven oil can be used up. After the dwemer disappeared, most of the automations would presumably run out of oil and break. A few sources say that they are kept running by magic, however magic stops working after the caster dies. However, they continue to function to this day! This makes it likely that they did in fact ascend to the immortal plane, and are able to cast magic to keep the automations running.

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Numidium ia ia r'lyeh.

Taleteller's picture
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My theory, and I believe yours can help support it, is that the Dwemer transcended mortality but Lorkhan tricked them for tampering in god magic. We all know that Dwemer have resonating crystals, the red crystal inside the constructs. We also know that Lorkhan's heart blood can be used as a soul gem or as it is most commonly called, the amulet of kings. The largest Dwemer factory is located on Solstheim just above red mountain where the heart is located. Dwemer used the heart blood to create resonating crystals to power their machines. Since it used the power of a god I imagine in theory it had a near infinite power source and why Dwemer machines are still working in TES V. In TES V the machines though gather soul gems, filled and empty as we see them drop from their corpses. They need more power to survive. Now where does a machine get a will to survive though? When Kagrenac struck the heart he released the souls of all the Dwemer. Some of them if not all of them went inside their constructs. We also know many constructs can't leave their ruins;  a problem with technology or a curse? In addition to the proof of this in TESO we have a quest in the Alik'r where we find a love story between a Dwemer and someone else. They placed the lover inside the machine to maintain immortality so the non elf could live alongside the beloved. ALSO we see that after red mountains eruption we see heart stones. Through testing by our lord and savior Master Neloth we find out they can bring back bodies as it did with his apprentice. The relevance of this though is that his apprentice came back to life with a memory and a vengeance. Spirits can not simply be placed back inside their bodies so I am aware. A heart stone did this, the same thing that powers Dwemer machines, the same thing that was tapped and the Dwemer disappeared. This is why I believe they are inside their machines.

Nibenese Beggar's picture
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I must say that this certainly gave me a new way to think about the disappearance of the Dwemer. I actually really like this theory. It would explain a lot. I always wondered how there could be Dwemer ghosts if they apparently became the so-called "skin" of the Numidium. (which I like both theories I just am glad to hear another theory that makes a bit of sense)

Tailin Sero's picture
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Taleteller wrote:

*snip

I once thought the same about the soul gems powering the constructs, but mortals souls are black. Each soul gem found in a dwemer machine is white. That being said Arniel Gane warps a white soul gem, and by using keening, places his own soul into it... or it looks that way at least.

Tailin Sero's picture
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Nibenese Beggar wrote:

I must say that this certainly gave me a new way to think about the disappearance of the Dwemer. I actually really like this theory. It would explain a lot. I always wondered how there could be Dwemer ghosts if they apparently became the so-called "skin" of the Numidium. (which I like both theories I just am glad to hear another theory that makes a bit of sense)

I know what you mean. It's kind of funny how some theories that were based off information from Morrowind are disproven by other info from that same game.

Tailin Sero's picture
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Maybe, the "freeing" of Lorkhan's Heart allowed the dwemer(deep ones) to make contacted. But i don't know if that would work out timeline-wise.

Stygies VIII's picture
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Timeline-wise that'd be complicated, though we know gods of destruction can be sent a few Eras into the future. I've found an information on UESP, that in the Hackdirt Caverns you can hear strange animal growls from time to time and UESP is theorizing this is the Deep Ones making sounds. Didn't remember this. It would be quite weird. Now I wonder what it could be, perhaps just some beasts you cannot see or could it be any noise the Dwemer would make trying to communicate?

Tailin Sero's picture
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@The Lusty Dovahkiin

Tailin Sero wrote:

Maybe, the "freeing" of Lorkhan's Heart allowed the dwemer(deep ones) to make contacted. But i don't know if that would work out timeline-wise.

What I meant was Hackdirt was destroyed before by the Legion, which is why there are all of those ruined houses. But I don't know when the town was first destroyed (before or after the events of Morrowind). If freeing Lorkhan's Heart had something to do with the deep ones trying to communicate with mortals. I'll have to check this out.

Mage on skooma's picture
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Same. Honestly it's better to keep what happened to the dwemer a mystery, at least a until we REALLY find out what happened to them due to conflicting theories.

Stygies VIII's picture
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It's lovely when there's a mystery, but I also love revealing mysteries. By the way, I saw that theory in other places in the internet as well, maybe other people found more information supporting it? What if the Dwemer got trapped in a small plane of existence, like Mankar Camoran's?

Tailin Sero's picture
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I've updated the first part of the OP "Dwarven Spectres and Arniel Gane" to include another theory I have about soul gems being used in Dwemer Automatons and the Warped Soul Gem used by Arniel.

Luagar's picture
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Tailin Sero wrote:

1) Dwarven Spectres and Arniel Gane

<snip>

The general explanation for the Dwemer ghosts is that they died before the War of the Red Mountain.

It's also noteworthy that Arniel doesn't just become a ghost, but essentially becomes 'bound' to you (the nearest divine thing), which can be seen as further solidifying the idea that the Dwemer became bound to the Numidium the first time.

Tailin Sero's picture
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Imo, the towers are not divine, but their stones are. So the dwemer would have been absorbed by the Heart of Lorkhan, not Numidium.

If the Numidium had absorbed their souls then why aren't their any records of the dwemer dhost fighting the Aldmeri Dominion during Tiber's conquest of Tamirel?

Tailin Sero's picture
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Camelworks recently did a video on the Deep Ones.

Here's a link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR7BqEE1udg&lc=z12ntdwipx3lcdib104cdrkrjpyvznjrnj4.1494481699808342

Proweler's picture
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Tailin Sero wrote:
Imo, the towers are not divine, but their stones are. So the dwemer would have been absorbed by the Heart of Lorkhan, not Numidium.

Adamantine Tower and what ever it stone is and Red Mountain with Lorkhans heart are all divine. The other Towers were constructed by the Elves in imitation and so it and presumably its stones are decidedly not divine.

 

Also: Deep Ones is an obvious Lovecraft reference. No serious lore here - it just smell fishy. :)

Tailin Sero's picture
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I know of the reference, Proweler.

The main part of my theory isn't even the name "Deep Ones" it's the Bible of the Deep Ones and the idea of them being linked to Kagrenac's Journals.

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Proweler wrote:

Also: Deep Ones is an obvious Lovecraft reference. No serious lore here - it just smell fishy. :)

ISWYDT :)

The whole Hackdirt quest is an easter egg, referencing A Shadow over Innsmouth.

Seals-Her-Lips's picture
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That is a really interesting approach. I like the soul gem bit very much, didn't know about white soul gems. Most of the theories supporting that the Deep Ones are the Dwemer are almost exclusively based on the race's name etymology. I still don't have my own thoughts on the disappearance of the Dwemer race, but here are some reasons why I doubt that they could possibly be the Deep Ones. Just my personal point of view, if I'm wrong in any way I'll be glad to rectify.
First of all, I think there is a single Hackdirt villager, whose name I can't remember, that helps you throughout the quest and gives you some important information, like who the Brethren are, how did the villagers first find the Deep Ones and what they demand now that they've "returned". According to him, the Deep Ones helped the people of Hackdirt become rich and properous, but in exchange for (and I quote) a terrible price: blood. So they started kidnapping and murdering people as sacrifices for their new deities (until the Imperial Legion was sent to burn Hackdirt down and kill its inhabitants). In my opinion, that is so unlike the Dwemer, they were a technologically and philosophycally advanced race. They didn't need blood or anything close to necromancy, they could create life out of metal. They didn't pray to any Aedra or Daedra or anyone, they believed in their own power, the power of their science and their minds, which is why Kagrenac decided to use Lorkhan's Heart to create the Brass God.
That leads us to a second statement: the Bible of the Deep Ones is written in Daedric runes. Of course, many people know that translating those results in a copy of the book "Ngasta! Kvata! Kvakis!", written by a sload. I decided to take the Bible of the Deep Ones raw, because even if the Dwemer knew how to write in the language of the sload, the book is still introduced to the villagers as a Daedric text, and Daedric is what they found and learnt from the Deep Ones. Why would the Dwemer return to Tamriel under some isolated village, far from their former homelands in Morrowind, Skyrim or even Hammerfell, demanding blood and sacrifices, using Daedric runes to communicate?
So, this is it for me. As I said before, I'll be glad to know if I'm wrong anywhere and correct any mistake.

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Well, looks like I need to play Morrowind for real this time. This is fascinating! I've always been curious of the Deep Ones, but never would have thought of the Dwemer as being them.

Cursegrind's picture
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The Deep Ones are the fish men who serve Hermeas Mora. I mean that is literally what they are. They are Deep Ones. That is what a Deep One is in the same sense when you look at Serana you can say "That is what a vampire is." Am I the only one here who can figure this stuff out?

Yes. Yes I am.

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Thus the people of Hackdirt worship Hermeas Mora. Case closed. Next?

Ah, the case of the missing Dwemer.

Here's a hint. They got knocked into the 9th era.

Tailin Sero's picture
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Cursegrind wrote:

The Deep Ones are the fish men who serve Hermeas Mora.

Aside from the fact that one is clearly human, while the other is daedra, sure they're the same thing. (that's sarcasm, btw)

Also, Lurkers (aka "the fish men") more closely resemble the Scalon from the Shivering Isles than anything else.

Cursegrind wrote:

Am I the only one here who can figure this stuff out?
 
Yes. Yes I am.

Imagine getting caught up in your own headcanon to the point where you start thinking you're smarter than everyone else.

What a sad little man you are. I hope you get better. :)