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Bibliophael's picture
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A library is more than the information it has collected. It is also the infrastructure to help users find the information they need. I suggest this thread be established as a place for people to ask our librarians and colleagues for advice, recommendations and directions to find documents concerning certain subjects or containing certain quotes. The Imperial Library is relatively easy to navigate, but even so there are times when the texts we need aren't readily obvious or easy to access. At such times, the search function is god-awfully slow and sometimes it is hard to know what to search for in any case. What do you say?

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Helloo. First post here after lurking a while (more to follow before long, perhaps).

Does anyone have any idea where I can find stuff on Xarxes? He seems to get mentioned in passing all over the place but I never find any real information just directly about him.

Similarly, any idea where 'Jill' lore resides? I see them talked about on the forums occasionally, but I can't for the life of me find any actual lore about them.

Thanks! :)

Proweler's picture
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Not much known about Xarxes really.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/varieties-faith-empire

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/conversations-daedric-princes-o...

That's about it really. And the Name of the Mysterium Xarexes.

 

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Does anyone know any books, especially obscure ones, that take place on Alinor? I've read a few; one that comes to mind is Firsthold Revolt and another one that has Almalexia conversing with someone from the Psijic Order (Iachesis?).

 

Also, anything on the Psijic Order would be much appreciated too.

 

I'm trying to make a collection of known Altmeri lore for easy reference (as well as Aldmeri in general). 

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Proweler wrote:

As for Jills the term is almost exclusively used by Nu-Hatta
 
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept
 
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-hatta-sphinxmoth-inquiry-tree
 
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

Don't forgot their appearance at the end of Ysgramor's 500.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/five-hundred-mighty-companions-or-thereabouts-ysgramor-returned

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Cheers.

Tauryon wrote:

Does anyone know any books, especially obscure ones, that take place on Alinor? I've read a few; one that comes to mind is Firsthold Revolt and another one that has Almalexia conversing with someone from the Psijic Order (Iachesis?).

 

Also, anything on the Psijic Order would be much appreciated too.

 

I'm trying to make a collection of known Altmeri lore for easy reference (as well as Aldmeri in general). 

This is good moment to test the tag system. :)

http://www.imperial-library.info/category/tags/altmer

http://www.imperial-library.info/category/tags/psijic

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Thanks Prowler!

Bibliophael's picture
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I'd be grateful if anyone could pass along any documents they can think of detailing Dwemeri philosophy and culture.

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Tauryon -

I'd compiled this for one TESF thread, but as nobody there really responded... that's pretty much everything found on TIL that ever mentioned Altmer-related stuff in a meaningful way. That's actually more than the tags seem to show for me =) Sorry if some comments seem patronising or something - I was writing this with newcomers in mind.

---

preface: don't forget that most information about the Sumurset Isles is inherently biased, since even those documents that strive for truthfulness were written by outsiders. And Altmeri culture is supposed to be incomprehensible...

Historian accounts:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/ages-man - Dawn and Merethic era; written by an Altmer
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-editi... - a lot of valuable hints at the truth (and a bit of insider perspective in YR's comments), yet the downside is that everything Aldmeri-related (including apparently the Ayleid and Direnni legacy in Mannish lands) is dumped into a single article. Use your common sense to discern which belongs where.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-editi... - a "positive" picture of the Isles. A lot of valuable factual information that is likely to be more reliable.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/daggerfall-fragment-artaeum
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/father-niben - includes a rough translation of Aldmeri verse
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-editi... - a few words on the Direnni
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-editi... - more on the archenemy, the Sload
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-editi... - more on that other race much beloved by the Altmer, the Maormer
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/brief-history-empire-v1
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/origin-mages-guild
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/antecedants-dwemer-law - and its High Elven roots
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/rising-threat - one of the rare insider accounts
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/great-war - a detailed Imperial perspective
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/night-tears - one sentence on technological advancement of Mer already in the Merethic era
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/morrowind-imperial-province - states rumours as to where Tiber Septim got the Numidium from; written by an Altmer
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/daggerfall-wild-elves - an early source on the Ayleid, notable for introducing the still-yet-rarely used alternative names for the Merish races, and for listing the age of one Ayleid scholar

Religion & metaphysics:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/annotated-anuad - the "beautiful heresies".
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/aldmeri-ancestor-worship
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/monomyth
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/varieties-faith-empire
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/jephre
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/preparation-corpse-volume-one-a... - an alleged Summerset view of necromancy
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/short-study-ayleidic-symbolism - mostly Ayleid, but apparently applicable to the island "High Elves" as well
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/glories-and-laments - some more along the same lines
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/alduinakatosh-dichotomy - Auri-El == Akatosh?
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/old-ways
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/concerning-psijic-order-and-psi... - Vehk on the Psijic Order
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-editi...
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept
(synopsis: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/facts-and-opinions-nu-hatta-int... )

In-character narratives:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/de-rerum-dirennis - a story of the very early days of the Isles (clearly predating the Crystal-like-Law even, if we compare this text to the PGE3 article)
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/ayrenn-unforeseen-queen - clearly propaganda aimed at outlanders, though
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/tiber-septim’s-sword-meeting-... - a Sunbird in action, nuff said.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride - of note here are the following headings: "What appears to be an Altmeri commentary on Talos", "Numidium's siege of Alinor", "Another Altmeri in-character snippet", "Description of an Altmer ship", "The Sunbirds of Alinor", "What were the Void Nights?"

In-universe fiction (take any claims with a huge grain of salt! Depiction of culture is most likely completely off):

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/firsthold-revolt - on Morgiah and her tenure as the Queen of Firsthold
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/feyfolken
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/mannimarco-king-worms
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/king-edward - the king of fiction. Makes the in-universe author of The Real Barenziah sound knowledgeable re:everything Merish.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/palla-volume-2 - a Redguard stereotype about the Altmer (yet, book written by a Nord?)
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/2920-suns-dawn-book-2 - so, do some Altmer have dark hair or do they not?
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/hypothetical-treachery - a "High Elf" battlemage
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/fools-ebony-part-sixth - a "High Elven" tradition, apparently obscene (most likely something related to Queen Ayrenn! LOL)

Random snippets of lore:

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/hanging-gardens - Dwemeri account of an Altmeri village? "A boring travel guide" (c) Yagrum Bagarn
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archive-ken-rolston - see "The king of Morrowind" for explanation of what "High King" means to Mer
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/thirty-six-lessons-vivec-sermon... - are "tribes" the same as "classes" described in PGE3? Or something yet more ancient?
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/goblin-army - more on goblins...
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/urshilaku-tribe
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/go-blades - old ctiy descriptions from Arena; there might still be, y'know, _something_ in there... or not.

Proweler's picture
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Mustakettu85 wrote:
That's actually more than the tags seem to show for me =)

I'm using this thread to update the tags. :P

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Proweler wrote:

Mustakettu85 wrote:
That's actually more than the tags seem to show for me =)

I'm using this thread to update the tags. :P

 

Great! =)

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Musta, this is absolutely great. I cannot wait to catalog these and compile them. Maybe we could do it and submit something in the user creations section?

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Tauryon wrote:

Musta, this is absolutely great. I cannot wait to catalog these and compile them. Maybe we could do it and submit something in the user creations section?

Thank you. 

I'm not the best person for unbiased compiling, though - I have my own agenda, my own vision of the whole Sumurset thing, and it's pretty "out there". // the main outline of it is going to be published in Zaethron's second Community Apocrypha // So I'd say the primary sources are good as they are - and people should study them and form their own theories, not run with someone else's interpretations.

 

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Mustakettu85 wrote:

Tauryon wrote:

Musta, this is absolutely great. I cannot wait to catalog these and compile them. Maybe we could do it and submit something in the user creations section?

Thank you. 

I'm not the best person for unbiased compiling, though - I have my own agenda, my own vision of the whole Sumurset thing, and it's pretty "out there". // the main outline of it is going to be published in Zaethron's second Community Apocrypha // So I'd say the primary sources are good as they are - and people should study them and form their own theories, not run with someone else's interpretations.

 

Np. I have my own vision too, of course. I'm just suggesting we create something so other Altmeri fans have something easy to reference because the lore of the Altmer, the deeper stuff especially, can be tough to find sometimes (like all of the ones that you mentioned that were tagged under Altmer).

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Tauryon wrote:

Np. I have my own vision too, of course. I'm just suggesting we create something so other Altmeri fans have something easy to reference because the lore of the Altmer, the deeper stuff especially, can be tough to find sometimes (like all of the ones that you mentioned that were tagged under Altmer).

 

Aren't the links to the primary sources enough for that purpose?

Vaerein's picture
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I would greatly appreciate anything related to early 1E-mid 2E works relating to the provinces of Elsweyr and Valenwood. 

Proweler's picture
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Unless Elderscrolls Online covered it, I don't think there is anything very specific written about that. You're best off scraping the sources on the time line for the First and Second Era.

 

 

 

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Mustakettu85 wrote:

Tauryon wrote:

Np. I have my own vision too, of course. I'm just suggesting we create something so other Altmeri fans have something easy to reference because the lore of the Altmer, the deeper stuff especially, can be tough to find sometimes (like all of the ones that you mentioned that were tagged under Altmer).

 

Aren't the links to the primary sources enough for that purpose?

It might make it easier and much more accessible for people in the future who wish to study Altmeri/Aldmeri lore.

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You know, Tauryon, what I will say is probably going to sound elitist and counterproductive, but I believe that making things "easier and more accessible" is not going to do the lore community good in the long run (we have enough of that going on with the actual games). Primary sources have to be read in their entirety, so as to be properly misinterpreted.

Sotha Chill's picture
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Bibliophael wrote:

I'd be grateful if anyone could pass along any documents they can think of detailing Dwemeri philosophy and culture.

Hmm you could possibly try parts of "Hanging Gardens", "Chronicles of Nchuleft", "Dwemer Inquiries" Vol. 1-3, and perhaps the "Dwarves"series to refrence off of.

Sotha Chill's picture
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If you are talking about early Dwemer culture, then What we know of Nerevar, and info from Morrowind, and the books "Nerevar at Red Mountain", "The Battle of Red Mountain", The book "Dwemer History and Culture", and possibly parts from "Chimarvamidium" are the closest we are going to get, unless future installments reveal more.

Bibliophael's picture
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Many thanks! I was actually hoping for texts more along the lines of A Type of Zero Still to Be Discovered, documents which might not appear in many of the conventional channels, but that's a very solid reading list you've assembled. I've more or less sorted out my questions by now, but I appreciate your taking the time to help.

Sotha Chill's picture
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No problem, I've found the Dwemer to be very fascinating myself. That list should answer a few questions lol.

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I am researching burial rites for the Nords in the late Merethic Era, specifically related to Ysgramor, Yngol and Ylgar. 

I have read Night of TearsFrontier, Conquest, and Accommodation: A Social History of CyrodiilSongs of the Return Volume 2 and 19Yngol and the Sea-Ghosts, and Notes on Yngol Barrow.

Are there any other primary texts that might explain the icons used in decoration of the tombs, rites and building practices?

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It might be helpful to look at the original concept art, since it often reads better than the in game implementation. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47857688@N08/sets/72157629321466509/

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Mustakettu85 wrote:

You know, Tauryon, what I will say is probably going to sound elitist and counterproductive, but I believe that making things "easier and more accessible" is not going to do the lore community good in the long run (we have enough of that going on with the actual games). Primary sources have to be read in their entirety, so as to be properly misinterpreted.

Oh, I understand that, it just irritates me to no end when having to constantly explain Altmeri lore over and over again.

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Musta, thanks a ton for posting that list! I've formed a recent fascination for the Altmer on a personal level and have been wanting to research them first-hand, considering that it is impossible to ask questions or start discussions without people using "Thalmor" as a period for the thread.

"These are surely a fascinating people whose mysterious culture and how it could express utopian themes in the Elder Scrolls univ-THALMOR!!! THEY SUCK!"

"Okay. Ahem. I was just going to say that they live for centuries. Longer than any other race! I love imagining how this long life span could contribute to their mindset as a culture and their structure of society and certain policies. I loved seeing the Middle-Earth's elves and how immortality shaped them as a people, and I'd really like to see more detail on what the Summerse-DID I STUTTER!?!??!? I SAAAIIID THALMOR!"

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Where are you asking questions? The Thalmor tend to not be discussed much here unless a question is specifically about them. I can see them being mentioned in a thread about Altmeri culture as extremists, but there is far more to the Altmer than that.

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Uesp forums. Great community. But uh.... yeah they've kind of lost all credibility for this college student. This place seems to be a bit more reliable.

Dagoth Relnav's picture
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Ah. In my experience, UESP, while significantly better than elderscrolls.wikia ([Numit] forbid), tends to reject more obscure lore. If you want to discuss something like altmeri culture, you've come to the right place. :)